There's no easy way out of this (1 Viewer)

[meily]

I agree that we need to get better talent and that means drafting better. I also agree that the reason this year is so bad is injuries. I also agree that we are in a soft reset and that the cap should not be an issue after next year.

And while DA might not be as bad of a coach as the record this year looks, he's still never going to be a good NFL head coach. We've watch him try for three years and it clearly isn't working and isn't going to get better.

I'll add that this whole won't be able to get a good coach thing is nonsense. There are only 32 NFL HC jobs and usually only 5 or 6 available each year and every one of them will have issues that make them less attractive than some and advantages that make them more attractive than some. It all comes down to fit and what things are important to each individual coach and none of us know the answer to that. Maybe they can't get their first choice or even second choice, but they will be able to find a good coach. Payton wasn't the first choice but it worked out well.

The bigger issue to me is in the scouting department. We need guys to do a better job scouting in the draft. Loomis should stop trading up and giving away picks. He mostly did that last year, but he need to continue with that and find a way to get more picks. But what it comes down too is that Ireland and his staff haven't been good enough since 2017 and a lot of 2017 was that they had 6 picks in the top 100.

He didn't do that at all last year, we stood pat and took the BPA.

I do agree that with better talent will give better results, I mean our 2-0 start had people praising DA's hire but as soon as the wheels fell off it was back to how bad of a coach DA is, it can't be both ways

Better talent, depth will make any coach look like he second coming, even Belichek looked like a washed up coach after he started fielding team devoid of talent.

 

[Judge_Smails]

We have to get the players in the building no matter who the coach is

As much as people want to believe this is a DA issue, he's really just the scapegoat because no coach can win with the injuries this team has experienced and we are already in the process of a soft rebuild.

It’s not always binary. A team can have a poop diaper Head Coach, a poop diaper GM, AND, a poop diaper upper management.

The tendency of Saints fans to pick only one party to blame and to champion one or both of the others is partly why the powers that be will keep Mickey and Dennis until the whole thing totally and completely falls apart.

Based on the current trajectory, don’t be surprised to to see Mickey and DA at the podium in July 2026, bragging about how good David Carr looked in minicamp, how Honey Badger still has his edge and how the team is trending up and only going to be 70 million over the cap in 2027.

 

[saints4eva]

Based on the current trajectory, don’t be surprised to to see Mickey and DA at the podium in July 2026, bragging about how good David Carr looked in minicamp, how Honey Badger still has his edge and how the team is trending up and only going to be 70 million over the cap in 2027.

If David Carr shows up at minicamp we are in a boatload of big time trouble lol

 

[meily]

It’s not always binary. A team can have a poop diaper Head Coach, a poop diaper GM, AND, a poop diaper upper management.

The tendency of Saints fans to pick only one party to blame and to champion one or both of the others is partly why the powers that be will keep Mickey and Dennis until the whole thing totally and completely falls apart.

Based on the current trajectory, don’t be surprised to to see Mickey and DA at the podium in July 2026, bragging about how good David Carr looked in minicamp, how Honey Badger still has his edge and how the team is trending up and only going to be 70 million over the cap in 2027.

As long as we have added to the squad, I'd tend to believe them because our roster will reflect one that has been fortified.

 

[Hubig]

Underhill also said that he didn't think the Saints would be in a good cap situation until 2028. They really need to start hitting on draft picks otherwise its gonna be a horrible short term.

 

[Judge_Smails]

As long as we have added to the squad, I'd tend to believe them because our roster will reflect one that has been fortified.

Keep doing what you’re doing (smacking gum while saying this).

 

[meily]

Underhill also said that he didn't think the Saints would be in a good cap situation until 2028. They really need to start hitting on draft picks otherwise its gonna be a horrible short term.

I think he was speaking more about contracts that will come off the books (veteran players) but the process is the same, we can add talent by restructuring , but also we have to realize this coming off-season there will be an even clearer vision to improving this team and it again starts in the trenches on both sides.

I do not think we are far off from fielding a competitive team, injuries really destroyed the potential of this season.

 

[Snakehead]

The overall roster age is skewed because of the amount of undrafted free agents/rookies we had to have at the bottom of the roster just to fill spots but we have one of the oldest starting lineups in the NFL (healthy). We are reliant on older players for success.

I'm not even factoring the guys who are keeping us from forfeiting games. I'm referencing the roster when the season started, the first week of September.

 

[St. Widge]

He didn't do that at all last year, we stood pat and took the BPA.

I do agree that with better talent will give better results, I mean our 2-0 start had people praising DA's hire but as soon as the wheels fell off it was back to how bad of a coach DA is, it can't be both ways

Better talent, depth will make any coach look like he second coming, even Belichek looked like a washed up coach after he started fielding team devoid of talent.

Loomis did better at not trading up last year, but he did trade up for Kool-Aid so it's not accurate to say he didn't do that at all. But, he showed more restraint and I hope he gets it that with a team with no depth you need those picks.

As far as DA, I'm not fully judging him on this year. I think year one showed he wasn't good enough and year 2 confirmed it.

 

[SweetT]

I think you may get your wish. But maybe not the guy you want. Looking at how this organization operates, my guess is that Aaron Glenn might be the next head coach. He was in the running last time, he has connections to the organization, he is from both the Campbell and Payton line, and he seems like he would be a player coach and a good motivator. I'm not sure he's a great defensive mind, but he's showing this year if he has talent to work with he can do a good job.

Plus, I know everyone wants the next hot young OC to be HC, but those guys are going to be harder to get as Ben Johnson showed last year. It seems likely it would be easier to get a better coach by getting a defensive guy that is less in demand by other teams. Then you hope he goes out and finds the next hot assistant to name OC.

Glenn wouldn't be my preference, but I don't think he would be a bad choice.

I’ll take anyone who has had the privilege of watching Dan Campbell do his thing

 

[St. Widge]

Underhill also said that he didn't think the Saints would be in a good cap situation until 2028. They really need to start hitting on draft picks otherwise its gonna be a horrible short term.

I think Nick was talking a bit off the cuff and doing very quick math. I think we can be fine with the cap by 2026 or 2027. But the point still stands that they need to draft better and that it's not going to be better next year without a great draft.

 

[meily]

Loomis did better at not trading up last year, but he did trade up for Kool-Aid so it's not accurate to say he didn't do that at all. But, he showed more restraint and I hope he gets it that with a team with no depth you need those picks.

As far as DA, I'm not fully judging him on this year. I think year one showed he wasn't good enough and year 2 confirmed it.

The entire off-season was the beginning of a soft rebuild, targeting a player with limited draft picks is not showing restraint but simply identifying a player and going after him

The argument remains the same, some of us are casual fans a do not follow the team during the off-season and read articles with quotes for. The front office and coaches and just tune in when the season starts not know about physiological changes in the front office and coaching staff.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Loomis did better at not trading up last year, but he did trade up for Kool-Aid so it's not accurate to say he didn't do that at all. But, he showed more restraint and I hope he gets it that with a team with no depth you need those picks.

I’m not suggesting that Loomis is blame free, but I’m convinced that it was 90% Payton that was making the calls in the draft room.

Loomis certainly was signing off, but I find it hard to imagine he was either: a) forcing picks on Payton that he didn’t want; or b) telling Payton “no” to a trade up when Payton wanted a player, whether it was a home run like Kamara or busts like Davenport or Turner or, or, or.

 

[St. Widge]

I’m not suggesting that Loomis is blame free, but I’m convinced that it was 90% Payton that was making the calls in the draft room.

Loomis certainly was signing off, but I find it hard to imagine he was either: a) forcing picks on Payton that he didn’t want; or b) telling Payton “no” to a trade up when Payton wanted a player, whether it was a home run like Kamara or busts like Davenport or Turner or, or, or.

I totally agree. Payton was in control of the draft when he was here and I think DA has a big say in it now that he is head coach. And frankly, it's how it should work and it's what good GMs do. They should only step in if the pick helps the short term but hurts the long term future of the team which may or may not involve that HC.

But I do think the scouting is lacking and that's part of the reason for mediocre at best drafts since 2017. But that' on Ireland and I think that's part of why they brought in Ziegler and Mueller.

 

[NatureBoy]

If there was a year to bite the bullet, cut some guys, and get the cap under control, it was last offseason. 2025 is not looking good for doing anything but kicking the can. $81 million over the cap and there are very few obvious cuts.

Lattimore actually costs you money to trade. Cutting Kamara saves you $18 million, but Cam Jordan costs you $3 million to cut. Carr only saves you $1.5 million to cut. Ramcyzck gets you $6 million (so that's a no-brainer). You save about $4 million total by cutting J.T. Gray and Khaulen Sanders.

In the end, we are stuck having to restructure a bunch of contracts of older players just to get under the cap, and that means we can't even really do a full rebuild like we need to. There will still be a lot of veteran players on this squad, some not really producing anything.

Can we get under the cap? Sure, but it's going to take until 2028 to really get this cap situation right, and that's assuming we even try.

So where does that leave us? It leaves us overpaying for old players who may or may not start while having to rely heavily on draft picks. If we don't knock it out of the park in the 2025 draft, we are going to be in the dumps for a while. We HAVE to start getting more draft picks now to even make it a possibility. Everyone should be in consideration to be traded before the deadline.

The big question is what coach is going to be willing to come here to take this project on.

This is why Mickey won't be firing Allen. What coach would want this? What organization would want to subject a new coach with promise to this? Mickey's cap management has plagued this team for the past 3-5 years, but he's doubled down (kicking the can out further) and was able to field average teams. Now it's beyond that point. The only thing to do is ride it out and clear as much cap as possible while doing so. This will be a multiple year process.