There's no easy way out of this (1 Viewer)

[DSnfla]

He didn't do that at all last year, we stood pat and took the BPA.

I do agree that with better talent will give better results, I mean our 2-0 start had people praising DA's hire but as soon as the wheels fell off it was back to how bad of a coach DA is, it can't be both ways

Better talent, depth will make any coach look like he second coming, even Belichek looked like a washed up coach after he started fielding team devoid of talent.

DA in a nutshell is he is not a HC that elevates the team around him. SP was a HC that would. Give him a decent team and you'll get a decent team back give him a good team and you'll get a good team back. The issue is we do have a good, not great team, BUT we are decimated with injuries, and at very important positions. DA is NOT a HC that can begin to compensate with his coaching ability to overcome that
Had we not had this incredible amount of injuries at key positions we would not be having this conversation

 

[DSnfla]

Loomis did better at not trading up last year, but he did trade up for Kool-Aid so it's not accurate to say he didn't do that at all. But, he showed more restraint and I hope he gets it that with a team with no depth you need those picks.

As far as DA, I'm not fully judging him on this year. I think year one showed he wasn't good enough and year 2 confirmed it.

If he pans out the Kool-Aid deal may be incredibly fortunate. Adebo is probably gone and very well likely Latimore too. Taylor and KA may very well be starting outside corners next yr

 

[No2DC]

DA in a nutshell is he is not a HC that elevates the team around him. SP was a HC that would. Give him a decent team and you'll get a decent team back give him a good team and you'll get a good team back. The issue is we do have a good, not great team, BUT we are decimated with injuries, and at very important positions. DA is NOT a HC that can begin to compensate with his coaching ability to overcome that
Had we not had this incredible amount of injuries at key positions we would not be having this conversation

Why wouldn't we? He's a losing coach; that's his MO. Great coaches find a way to survive through adversity, so the injury argument does hold water to me. This is who the deer is. We beat the worst team in the league and a questionable team in Dallas. I know you're not trying to make excuses for him, but I don't think we underrepresent how bad of a decision it was to hire such a bad coach, and Loomis knew he was a lousy coach but did it anyway.

 

[saintmike23]

We need to trade down a lot in the draft and do what we can by releasing or trading veterans.

 

[St. Widge]

If he pans out the Kool-Aid deal may be incredibly fortunate. Adebo is probably gone and very well likely Latimore too. Taylor and KA may very well be starting outside corners next yr

I'm not saying it wasn't the right move, especially in hindsight given the Adebo and Lattimore situation, I'm just saying that he did trade up this year so to say he did not do it at all is not accurate.

Although I do wonder if there wasn't an interior OL at our original No. 2 pick, that could have keep the OL together better while we have all the injuries.

 

[St. Widge]

Why wouldn't we? He's a losing coach; that's his MO. Great coaches find a way to survive through adversity, so the injury argument does hold water to me. This is who the deer is. We beat the worst team in the league and a questionable team in Dallas. I know you're not trying to make excuses for him, but I don't think we underrepresent how bad of a decision it was to hire such a bad coach, and Loomis knew he was a lousy coach but did it anyway.

See this is where people go overboard and start making sheet up. If Loomis knew DA was a lousy coach, he would not have hired him. He made a bad hire but he didn't do it intentionally.

 

[SweetT]

You can't give Campbell very much credit for the Lions turnaround, He's the Ogeron of the NFL. Having multiple high draft choices from sucking for many yrs and also getting a boat load of 1's and 2's and Goff for trading Stafford was the beginning. Having a very good GM and drafting very well (having all those high picks helped ). THEN and here is where his success lies , he has a great OC and a good DC in Johnson and Glenn

Sure their GM deserves some Recognition but DC is maximizing the talent of his team. His team is taking in his persona/energy. Goff wasn’t wanted by his team that drafted him. So he’s a castoff, which no one ever expected Goff to be playing at this level. Montgomery was giving his walking papers. Williams was blasted by DC during his rookie year before he got his head in the game. If you can’t see the difference between how the goals and matched energy is different between DC and you know who, then I can’t help you. One team has completely bought in and the other is freefalling when not beating up on bad teams. Maybe, you know who, should give up his play calling duties on defense, and get the heck out of the way, bc he is a dang roadblock. Let’s not talk about drafting bc last year and this year, we still had premium picked players all across our Oline (Ruiz, McCoy, Penning, and now Fugua this year). We have Olave and an All Pro in Shaeed. We have AK41, TH7. He got his castoff in DC4. The defense was all his. He isn’t maximizing the talent. He isn’t getting them to buy in. There’s something off with him bc he can get them to beat up bad teams, but we can’t even beat good teams, when we should. That’s not a talent issue. That’s a coaching issue

 

[SaintStephen1]

If there was a year to bite the bullet, cut some guys, and get the cap under control, it was last offseason. 2025 is not looking good for doing anything but kicking the can. $81 million over the cap and there are very few obvious cuts.

Lattimore actually costs you money to trade. Cutting Kamara saves you $18 million, but Cam Jordan costs you $3 million to cut. Carr only saves you $1.5 million to cut. Ramcyzck gets you $6 million (so that's a no-brainer). You save about $4 million total by cutting J.T. Gray and Khaulen Sanders.

In the end, we are stuck having to restructure a bunch of contracts of older players just to get under the cap, and that means we can't even really do a full rebuild like we need to. There will still be a lot of veteran players on this squad, some not really producing anything.

Can we get under the cap? Sure, but it's going to take until 2028 to really get this cap situation right, and that's assuming we even try.

So where does that leave us? It leaves us overpaying for old players who may or may not start while having to rely heavily on draft picks. If we don't knock it out of the park in the 2025 draft, we are going to be in the dumps for a while. We HAVE to start getting more draft picks now to even make it a possibility. Everyone should be in consideration to be traded before the deadline.

The big question is what coach is going to be willing to come here to take this project on.

Agree with everything you say. We should have been trading down in draft and accumulating lower cost talent since Sean left. I would trade down 2-3 times in the first round and maybe even in the 2nd for the next few years.

 

[DSnfla]

Why wouldn't we? He's a losing coach; that's his MO. Great coaches find a way to survive through adversity, so the injury argument does hold water to me. This is who the deer is. We beat the worst team in the league and a questionable team in Dallas. I know you're not trying to make excuses for him, but I don't think we underrepresent how bad of a decision it was to hire such a bad coach, and Loomis knew he was a lousy coach but did it anyway.

LOL since you highlighted part of my post I want to give you a lil exercise.
Go to your keyboard type out a paragraph and time yourself. Now do the same thing only you have to use ONE hand and see if you typed just as fast. That's what it's like when a team is decimated by injuries and at key positions.
Myself nor anyone else is saying DA is a great coach. Belichick had a losing record before he went to N.E. Pete Carrol was fired from 2 HC jobs in the NFL before he went to Sea. I'm not saying he's either of them. In fact I've already given my assessment of DA. But just because a HC failed at one destination does not automatically mean he's a bad HC I just gave 2 example of that.
You are making a determination of DA and disregarding the ENORMOUS amount of injuries we have just like the one handed typist

 

[DSnfla]

I'm not saying it wasn't the right move, especially in hindsight given the Adebo and Lattimore situation, I'm just saying that he did trade up this year so to say he did not do it at all is not accurate.

Although I do wonder if there wasn't an interior OL at our original No. 2 pick, that could have keep the OL together better while we have all the injuries.

Picking a OL in the 2nd expecting 75% of your OL to get injured ?? That's some real hindsight

 

[DSnfla]

Sure their GM deserves some Recognition but DC is maximizing the talent of his team. His team is taking in his persona/energy. Goff wasn’t wanted by his team that drafted him. So he’s a castoff, which no one ever expected Goff to be playing at this level. Montgomery was giving his walking papers. Williams was blasted by DC during his rookie year before he got his head in the game. If you can’t see the difference between how the goals and matched energy is different between DC and you know who, then I can’t help you. One team has completely bought in and the other is freefalling when not beating up on bad teams. Maybe, you know who, should give up his play calling duties on defense, and get the heck out of the way, bc he is a dang roadblock. Let’s not talk about drafting bc last year and this year, we still had premium picked players all across our Oline (Ruiz, McCoy, Penning, and now Fugua this year). We have Olave and an All Pro WRs. We have AK41, TH7. He got his castoff in DC4. The defense was all his. He isn’t maximizing the talent. He isn’t getting them to buy in. There’s something off with him bc he can get them to beat up bad teams, but we can’t even beat good teams, when we should. That’s not a talent issue. That’s a coaching issue

1st Goff was playing like crap till Johnson took over as OC
In 2020 the Lions from sucking so bad had the #3 pick Okudah the # 35 Swiftand #67 Okwara. in 21 they had #7 Sewell #41 Onwuzurike and #72McNeill. 22 #2 Hutchinson, #12 Williams #46 Paschal. 23 #12 Gibbs #18Campbell #34 Laporta #45 Branch #68 Hooker #96 Martin.
That's 15 picks in the top 96 in 4yrs. Plus lots of cap space I would bet $$$ if you gave ML , Ireland and DA that kind of ammunition along with Johnson as OC or heck Kubiak for that matter. We'd be in the same position as the Lions
Campbell is getting most of the credit for the job his GM , OC and DC are doing

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Team just needs some milk.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

See this is where people go overboard and start making sheet up. If Loomis knew DA was a lousy coach, he would not have hired him. He made a bad hire but he didn't do it intentionally.

Same thinking as saying our situation is worse than Washington with Snyder and “the league needs to step in”.

 

[bclemms]

To me as a non-Saints fan I'm fascinated that there are Saints fans here who (paraphrasing) "The Saint's cap management isn't an issue because the cap always goes up."

When in reality it actually there are multiple issues with that.
- Aging roster.
- Lack of depth.
- Roster issues when drafting fails.
- Contracts that are difficult jettison.

And to cap it all off, if this were some sort of "cap manipulation hack" then why don't all other 31 teams do it if it were so advantageous?

There’s a time and place to push the limits of the cap where it could be justified. Somewhere along the way we tried to convince ourselves Dennis Allen and Derek Carr was a good enough reason.

The reality was we should have never signed Carr and tore it all down 2 years ago. The downside of doing it then was we would probably have a team full of unknown players sitting on 2 wins in week 7 but doing so with a pile of cap space and draft picks. We may have even been doing it with a guy like Jayden Daniels or Penix under center.

 

[SirLoinSaint64]

Hire a legit NFL Head Coach. Dump the current big salaries. Don't re-sign a couple who are due big contracts in the near future like Olave. Work the scouting department 24/7. Obtain as much draft capital as possible. Completely restructure the conditioning and training department and staff. Time for a complete reboot.