There's no easy way out of this (1 Viewer)

[tinman]

So far in this thread I've learned that that only coach to lead the Saints to contender type status and a SB win is responsible a full 3 years later for the current state of the Saints, which is really more unbelievable when you think that his last year we went 9-8, narrowly missing the playoffs with an NFL record number of starters (including starting 4 different QB's) missing games....

As a bonus I've also learned that we should tank for a college QB who recently got benched mainly (i believe) because his last name is Manning....

Learning stuff is good!
Like 2 different things being true of the same person.

Sean Payton has the same amount of rings as Dennis Allen.
Sean Payton has lead the Saints to more losing seasons than Dennis Allen.
Sean Payton handed Dennis Allen an older team w/a recent history of very poor drafts, well over the cap finances, overblown vets salaries, a team w/almost no depth at skill positions & a history of letting homegrown talent leave.

That doesn't negate his accomplishments, nor does it absolve him of mistakes that have affected the immediate future of the franchise.

 

[St4ever]

What in his play against very weak teams in college has made you believe he is worth sucking for to get in position to draft him??? Ohh , wait it's just because his name is Manning. SMH

Is there a better QB as of now in the 2026 draft to name sucking for yet?
I don’t believe our best interest is in getting a franchise QB this next draft.

 

[St. Widge]

Y'all act like you know how the Saint organization is structured when Payton was here and the truth is, there is only one constant from when that happened until now.....and that is Mickey Loomis.....the rest of it is just projection.....or educated guesses at best....trying to blame a HC that is now 3 years gone just seems ridiculous on it's face.....

I'd be willing to bet with CSP, we would have been in the playoffs last year and things would be fine right now.....

I mean we do know how they did things when Payton was here and he was in more or less total control over every aspect of the team. Every reporter from Underhill to Duncan has and will tell you that. Payton paid so much attention to detail that he had his hands in every aspect of the team. It's the way Parcells worked and so it was the way Payton worked.

When we talk about the 2017 draft, do we say that Loomis was going to take Mahomes if he was there or that Payton was going to take Mahomes if he was there? The answer is that it was Payton that was going to take Mahome despite having future HoF Drew Brees. If that doesn't tell you who was in total control of the Saints, I don't know what does.

And yes, Payton probably would have had them in the playoffs last year and likely this year because he's a great coach that gets results that are better than his talent. But that doesn't mean he didn't use our cap for all it was worth and then leave town leaving us with no cap space, no QB, no WRs, and an old roster. And the fact that we are in that situation is all the more reason to try to find a new coach that can get more out of our team than the talent we have because DA isn't that guy.

But despite all that, I'd take Sean Payton back as head coach of the Saints in a split second.

 

[madsaint1967]

Thanx for your valued & enlightened opinion.

Ok I’ll give an opinion. Sean Payton is ten times the coach that DA is. Payton has quite a few of those bad decisions on his team right now and they came in here and boat raced us last Thursday. Let’s not act like Payton, who’s been gone for going on 3 years is the reason we are where we are.

 

[BreesusSaves]

I think it is a twofold situation with Loomis and Payton, with Loomis deserving 99% of the blame.

The Saints cap was a disaster when Payton left.

Three years later, the Saints cap is still a disaster and only this past spring has Loomis been willing to acknowledge that.

Loomis could have started walking the cap down in 2022 or 2023. Instead he hands out an extension to Cam Jordan whose decline has begun and signs Carr. While Carr's APY is not an overpay, he and Cam together currently consume $71,519,000 of 2025's cap space.

Had Loomis not done creative accounting to get Carr and not extended Cam, we'd already be at the end of the tunnel. Instead we're still searching for that light at the end.

 

[Covington Saint]

Can a mod change the title of this thread. Robert Tepper keeps on blowing up in my head every time i click on the board.

 

[St4ever]

See this is where people go overboard and start making sheet up. If Loomis knew DA was a lousy coach, he would not have hired him. He made a bad hire but he didn't do it intentionally.

Or maybe they just promoted him because it kept his team whole with continuity!
How could you take DA’s record as a head coach and translate it into something great? How could you not see his defenses constantly getting ripped to pieces in two minute drills?
Although his intentions may not of been to hire a bad coach, it sure the he’ll wasn’t hiring a winning coach!

 

[St. Widge]

I think it is a twofold situation with Loomis and Payton, with Loomis deserving 99% of the blame.

The Saints cap was a disaster when Payton left.

Three years later, the Saints cap is still a disaster and only this past spring has Loomis been willing to acknowledge that.

Loomis could have started walking the cap down in 2022 or 2023. Instead he hands out an extension to Cam Jordan whose decline has begun and signs Carr. While Carr's APY is not an overpay, he and Cam together currently consume $71,519,000 of 2025's cap space.

Had Loomis not done creative accounting to get Carr and not extended Cam, we'd already be at the end of the tunnel. Instead we're still searching for that light at the end.

Loomis acknowledged the cap issues the year Payton left and said he was going to start working to get it under control. It's why they let Armstead and Marcus Williams go. But signing Carr the next year and signing Cam messed it up and he didn't get back to it until this past offseason. But he should have done it as soon as Payton left.

 

[tinman]

Thanx for sharing!
Your opinion is as valid as anyone else.
For fun, maybe address the non-factual statements I made.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Loomis acknowledged the cap issues the year Payton left and said he was going to start working to get it under control. It's why they let Armstead and Marcus Williams go. But signing Carr the next year and signing Cam messed it up and he didn't get back to it until this past offseason. But he should have done it as soon as Payton left.

I don't take what Loomis said about the cap seriously when Payton left because his actions said otherwise.

This season I am taking him seriously because his actions have backed his words.

 

[St. Widge]

Or maybe they just promoted him because it kept his team whole with continuity!
How could you take DA’s record as a head coach and translate it into something great? How could you not see his defenses constantly getting ripped to pieces in two minute drills?
Although his intentions may not of been to hire a bad coach, it sure the he’ll wasn’t hiring a winning coach!

Even if they did just promote him for continuity, Loomis would not have done that if the thought he was a terrible coach. And he clearly thought that he would be a winning coach. Nobody hires a coach they think is terrible and can't win. This isn't real life Major League.

 

[sfidc3]

I mean we do know how they did things when Payton was here and he was in more or less total control over every aspect of the team. Every reporter from Underhill to Duncan has and will tell you that. Payton paid so much attention to detail that he had his hands in every aspect of the team. It's the way Parcells worked and so it was the way Payton worked.

When we talk about the 2017 draft, do we say that Loomis was going to take Mahomes if he was there or that Payton was going to take Mahomes if he was there? The answer is that it was Payton that was going to take Mahome despite having future HoF Drew Brees. If that doesn't tell you who was in total control of the Saints, I don't know what does.

And yes, Payton probably would have had them in the playoffs last year and likely this year because he's a great coach that gets results that are better than his talent. But that doesn't mean he didn't use our cap for all it was worth and then leave town leaving us with no cap space, no QB, no WRs, and an old roster. And the fact that we are in that situation is all the more reason to try to find a new coach that can get more out of our team than the talent we have because DA isn't that guy.

But despite all that, I'd take Sean Payton back as head coach of the Saints in a split second.

I don't think you know as much as you think you know....our drafts immediately improved once Ireland came on board....CSP (and I'm one of his biggest fans) was downright awful when it came to personnel evaluation.....so he hired Ireland and while things have been a bit hit and miss since, we no longer trade up for smallish, one dimensional WRs......he didn't have complete control, because he knew he wasn't good at some things, one of the reasons I liked him......

I think it's fairly obvious that Loomis is mostly to blame for the current state of the Saints.....the rest is just noise to me....

 

[St. Widge]

I don't take what Loomis said about the cap seriously when Payton left because his actions said otherwise.

This season I am taking him seriously because his actions have backed his words.

No doubt he didn't really act on what he said after Payton left. He started to do it the first year when he let Armstead and Williams go, but he lost it when he thought he was getting good deals for Mathieu and Jarvis Landry. He then continued that with Carr and the Jordan deal.

 

[St. Widge]

I don't think you know as much as you think you know....our drafts immediately improved once Ireland came on board....CSP (and I'm one of his biggest fans) was downright awful when it came to personnel evaluation.....so he hired Ireland and while things have been a bit hit and miss since, we no longer trade up for smallish, one dimensional WRs......he didn't have complete control, because he knew he wasn't good at some things, one of the reasons I liked him......

I think it's fairly obvious that Loomis is mostly to blame for the current state of the Saints.....the rest is just noise to me....

Ireland certainly did the evaluations but Payton was making the final calls and the one that had almost total control over the team. Nothing makes that more clear than the Mahomes situation. And we have heard all the stories about Payton working out Kamara as a pass catcher and then insisting that the team trade up for him.

Loomis no doubt went along with it and shares a huge amount of the blame.

 

[sfidc3]

Learning stuff is good!
Like 2 different things being true of the same person.

Sean Payton has the same amount of rings as Dennis Allen.
Sean Payton has lead the Saints to more losing seasons than Dennis Allen.
Sean Payton handed Dennis Allen an older team w/a recent history of very poor drafts, well over the cap finances, overblown vets salaries, a team w/almost no depth at skill positions & a history of letting homegrown talent leave.

That doesn't negate his accomplishments, nor does it absolve him of mistakes that have affected the immediate future of the franchise.

Replace that last CSP with Mickey Loomis and then we agree......

And a HC having a ring is a whole lot different than a position coach.....god, what nonsense......also, CSP led the Saints to the playoffs 9 times in his 15 years here......DA led the Saints to the couch in January.....what utter nonsense....