Ukraine (78 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

Zelensky is not the problem. Most of the world and half of our country already know this.

The other half of the country needs to get their head out their arses. Just feels like they'd rather destroy the country than admit they are/were wrong.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

Zelensky is not the problem. Most of the world and half of our country already know this.

He's not gonna like that 1) what they told him, 2) that they told the media.. lol
expect retaliation...

 

[Sailorsaint]

Donald Trump 'secretly calls Zelensky's Ukraine rivals' but US President is left embarrassed​

MSN

That's getting awfully close to russian level interference. I really hope we aren't going to start some kind of internal propaganda crap like they do.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

The only way I can make sense of this:

1) Trump appears deadset on no security guarantees, and definitely no US troops for Ukraine. I don't think he cares about if Europe wants to do it. If he's consistent he might be OK with arms sales as long as the US isn't paying for it.

2) If / when he gets this from Ukraine, he would then go to the Russians for more concrete negotiations. I don't know what happens if Russia says no/wants more - and I think they probably would. We would learn whether he's truly some tool of Russia or is operating under some extreme Pat Buchanan style America First policy. A further complication would be if Europe is willing to give Ukraine guarantees. Although I'm not sure they would do that if the US didn't.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Very good CFR meeting with Kellog (US special envoy to Ukraine)

 

[SaintJ]

The only way I can make sense of this:

1) Trump appears deadset on no security guarantees, and definitely no US troops for Ukraine. I don't think he cares about if Europe wants to do it. If he's consistent he might be OK with arms sales as long as the US isn't paying for it.

2) If / when he gets this from Ukraine, he would then go to the Russians for more concrete negotiations. I don't know what happens if Russia says no/wants more - and I think they probably would. We would learn whether he's truly some tool of Russia or is operating under some extreme Pat Buchanan style America First policy. A further complication would be if Europe is willing to give Ukraine guarantees. Although I'm not sure they would do that if the US didn't.

Another way to make sense of it is a lot simpler: Trump is beholden to Putin, and is doing what he can to force Zelensky to surrender on Putin's terms. There may be some shakedown element ("give us your minerals"), which fits into Trump's mob-like approach to things, but it's secondary to pressuring Ukraine to do Russia's bidding.

There's no four-dimensional chess going on here.

 

[efil4stnias]

2) If / when he gets this from Ukraine, he would then go to the Russians for more concrete negotiations. I don't know what happens if Russia says no/wants more - and I think they probably would. We would learn whether he's truly some tool of Russia or is operating under some extreme Pat Buchanan style America First policy. A further complication would be if Europe is willing to give Ukraine guarantees. Although I'm not sure they would do that if the US didn't.

Every single "ask" up til now has been of Ukraine. Not ONE single ask of Putin ( pull back troops, stop indiscriminate bombings nightly, stop targeting electrical/civilian targets etc etc )

not 1.

And you dont know where Trumps loyalty lies?

 

[DaveXA]

Every single "ask" up til now has been of Ukraine. Not ONE single ask of Putin ( pull back troops, stop indiscriminate bombings nightly, stop targeting electrical/civilian targets etc etc )

not 1.

And you dont know where Trumps loyalty lies?

Yep, he's not even trying. His obsession with getting approval from Poots is disturbing.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Every single "ask" up til now has been of Ukraine. Not ONE single ask of Putin ( pull back troops, stop indiscriminate bombings nightly, stop targeting electrical/civilian targets etc etc )

not 1.

And you dont know where Trumps loyalty lies?

I'm not saying its 4D chess, but it seems to me if that was the case Trump would have just thrown up his hands and say "we're out" from Day 1, maybe Day 2 after some weak assed attempt at a negotiations to save face.

It could be what has been going on is some weak arse attempt to save face, and a slow burn to wear down any opposition in Congress, I guess we'll have to see.

 

[SaintJ]

I'm not saying its 4D chess, but it seems to me if that was the case Trump would have just thrown up his hands and say "we're out" from Day 1, maybe Day 2 after some weak assed attempt at a negotiations to save face.

It could be what has been going on is some weak arse attempt to save face, and a slow burn to wear down any opposition in Congress, I guess we'll have to see.

He has no interest in anything that goes on in Congress. He is not worried about any opposition, because his party has yet to oppose him on even the most trivial items since 2016. He needs to stay engaged with Ukraine to make them do what Putin wants.

 

[efil4stnias]

I'm not saying its 4D chess, but it seems to me if that was the case Trump would have just thrown up his hands and say "we're out" from Day 1, maybe Day 2 after some weak assed attempt at a negotiations to save face.

It could be what has been going on is some weak arse attempt to save face, and a slow burn to wear down any opposition in Congress, I guess we'll have to see.

Thats not his MO. Never was, never is, never will be. He couldnt do that from day 1 because he wants to drag Zelensky thru the mud, to the table and humiliate him into signing a terrible deal ( for Ukraine ) - THATS what Trump wants.

If he has to partner with Russia to do it, he will. And he has.

Its purely transactional. He wants those mineral rights....bad.

Kellogg, in the video above, reiterates what everyone is just now learning about Trump ( and i dont know how ) - every single relationship he has, business or personal, is transactional. Every single one.

This isnt even chess. Its checkers.

The reason he didnt do this day 1 is because the blowback would have been instantaneous and massive from all fronts. Slow-walk it, and folks will continue to play the "well maybe just this part is gone" card...which they have up until last Friday when the European leaders got to see Trump unfiltered. They saw the REAL Trump. And it FREAKED THEM OUT to the point they have held an emegency summit to form a EU coalition on Ukraine.

Dont be a bit surprised what happens next. Trump is about to have to decide what side he is on if the EU is able to get it together in short order and Zelensky has a mineral deal with EU vs US.

Watch what happens then.

Trump is burning bridges faster than his handlers and propagandists can pull out the fire extinguishers.

 

[efil4stnias]

 

[DaveXA]

Thats not his MO. Never was, never is, never will be. He couldnt do that from day 1 because he wants to drag Zelensky thru the mud, to the table and humiliate him into signing a terrible deal ( for Ukraine ) - THATS what Trump wants.

If he has to partner with Russia to do it, he will. And he has.

Its purely transactional. He wants those mineral rights....bad.

Kellogg, in the video above, reiterates what everyone is just now learning about Trump ( and i dont know how ) - every single relationship he has, business or personal, is transactional. Every single one.

This isnt even chess. Its checkers.

The reason he didnt do this day 1 is because the blowback would have been instantaneous and massive from all fronts. Slow-walk it, and folks will continue to play the "well maybe just this part is gone" card...which they have up until last Friday when the European leaders got to see Trump unfiltered. They saw the REAL Trump. And it FREAKED THEM OUT to the point they have held an emegency summit to form a EU coalition on Ukraine.

Dont be a bit surprised what happens next. Trump is about to have to decide what side he is on if the EU is able to get it together in short order and Zelensky has a mineral deal with EU vs US.

Watch what happens then.

Trump is burning bridges faster than his handlers and propagandists can pull out the fire extinguishers.

Absolutely all of this. This has been his m.o. since the 80s. What he's doing shouldn't surprise anyone who is really familiar with him and knows his history. I've read his book and his approach to negotiating and working with people hasn't changed a bit in 40+ years.

 

[rail]

Thats not his MO. Never was, never is, never will be. He couldnt do that from day 1 because he wants to drag Zelensky thru the mud, to the table and humiliate him into signing a terrible deal ( for Ukraine ) - THATS what Trump wants.

If he has to partner with Russia to do it, he will. And he has.

Its purely transactional. He wants those mineral rights....bad.

Kellogg, in the video above, reiterates what everyone is just now learning about Trump ( and i dont know how ) - every single relationship he has, business or personal, is transactional. Every single one.

This isnt even chess. Its checkers.

The reason he didnt do this day 1 is because the blowback would have been instantaneous and massive from all fronts. Slow-walk it, and folks will continue to play the "well maybe just this part is gone" card...which they have up until last Friday when the European leaders got to see Trump unfiltered. They saw the REAL Trump. And it FREAKED THEM OUT to the point they have held an emegency summit to form a EU coalition on Ukraine.

Dont be a bit surprised what happens next. Trump is about to have to decide what side he is on if the EU is able to get it together in short order and Zelensky has a mineral deal with EU vs US.

Watch what happens then.

Trump is burning bridges faster than his handlers and propagandists can pull out the fire extinguishers.

God, I would love to see the EU get its shirt together and get a mineral deal going with Ukraine.

Ha ha ha - wishful thinking.

 

[efil4stnias]

oh and they will never accept a temporary ceasefire.

So now Trump asking Ukraine to ceasefire only means they get to receive and not respond.