Underhill article: “Saints moves are telling us what they felt the real problem with the team was last season” (129 Viewers)

[Randy Jones]

That's all free agency is, though. Drew Brees was a cast off.

More luck than brilliance on the part of the Saints.

 

[Rexman100]

In football it's usually is a combination of things. But when it comes to selling tickets, it becomes selective. The Saints have become ticket sellers first and foremost. The strategy of rebuilding the team is dictated by it. It just reeks of a money man (Lauscha) calling the shots. Maybe, just mabye, Mickey's kick the can program was only supposed to be during Drew's window but the bean counters aren't giving him a choice now. I can't see any other reason why Loomis would have continued kicking the can. Sean's last season should have been year 1 of a proper rebuild. As for the excuse that Sean called the shots, Mickey should have stepped in. At some point, if the program isn't working or appears headed for a crash the GM needs to step in. I think it was obvious the Saints were in decline prior to Sean's last season. All of that said, I'm starting to think that it was always driven by revenue, which means they had to sell hope. I can't help but feel this way. I worked for 2 professional franchises that were 100% driven by sales 1st, performance and sport was a far 2nd.

It’s definitely the way it is, it’s a business. So selling hope is always priority one in the offseason. I’ve never seen an NFL team tank a season. The closest thing that I’ve seen, is a mid team like Carolina releasing and trading starters mid season. We sort of tanked last year by trading Lattimore. Another example of an NFL tanking is resting starters. All that to say, a team doesn’t decide to tank before a season starts.

 

[Boy_of_wonder75]

More luck than brilliance on the part of the Saints.

If that's the case, there's no reason not to believe they won't get lucky again.

 

[St. Widge]

The difference is the Andy Dalton Bengals versus the Joe Burrow Bengals (i.e. the Dalton Bengals were one and done in the playoffs for years, respectable and mediocre). The Bengals finally bottomed out and drafted high enough to get Burrow and Chase and reinvigorated their franchise. The Carr Saints are the Dalton Bengals at their best and they haven't even managed that in a mediocre to bad division. My hope was to tank for Arch Manning.

That sounds great in theory, but you are just as likely to have a year where you get Zach Wilson as you are to get Joe Burrow. And there is no guarantee that Arch is going to be that good when he comes out in 2 or 3 years. For all we know he gets hurt or just doesn't prove to be a great QB.

And even with the Bengals, they had one great year (where they went 10-7 in the regular season - a record that many hate the idea of), one year in the conf championship and have now had mediocre 9-8 season two years in a row. So, it's not as simple as tank to get a young franchise QB and then profit. Even if you get the franchise QB after tanking, it's no guarantee of a Super Bowl win, and at least half of the time you get Zach Wilson, Josh Rosen, Mitch Trubisky, Trevor Lawrence, Mark Sanchez, Sam Bradford, Baker Mayfield, etc.

 

[St. Widge]

That decision by DA was his nail in the coffin. Who goes into a season without a backup qb on the roster?

Luckily we don't have that problem this year since Rattler is now a season pro after all those snaps he took last year.

 

[Rexman100]

Lol, your backups don’t have to be good as your starters. Plus, if any athlete laughs at the “next man up” mantra, then they are not worth being in a sport. No one builds a roster thinking that their backups cannot hold their own. No backup thinks that they cannot provide the help that is needed from them. Look at Cam’s recent comment about the DE depth chart. He literally believes that the entire DE unit can be contributors. Thats the difference between an A1 player who believes (and should believe) vs some talking head that is not worth the salt on a 2 day old bagel.

Tell that to the backup journeyman signed a day before the game, whose job it is to contain Jalen Carter. “Hey don’t forget, it’s next man up”.

 

[St. Widge]

This is the comment I left from that article:

I really don’t understand the perception coming from the front office. We can be competitive, but to do what?, win a playoff game?. We may be as close to Tampa as we are far from Detroit, the rams and Philly.

If we are doing a mixture of cleaning cap and roster while going for it, we should not be signing new players that are over 26 years old. We should be questioning extending veterans that will not be playing up to their cap value.

To me, we are improvising, not building towards a real competitive future.

Why do you assume that guys over 26 can't live up to their cap number? 26 to 30 or so are usually the prime years for players.

I also don't understand how adding good players that will have every chance to live up to their cap number for the next 2 or 3 years is not building a team? What counts as building a team if that doesn't?

 

[sfidc3]

In hind sight letting DA go mid-season was no advantage. The D played worse and we got some juice from Rizzi that really ended up hurting us come draft time

I think this is an absolutely tone deaf argument.....the team had quit on DA, do you realize how ugly those last games would have been? Gayle was not going to find out and she was right in that regard......

I've never believed in sacrificing wins for draft position, arguably the best draft in Saints history we were picking 11th....

And with regards to the article I'm not totally surprised that they are retaining many of the vets because financially it probably makes sense to do so, the main thing with this first year of CKM and staff is the draft.....we need cheap young starters and depth....

 

[guillermo]

Why do you assume that guys over 26 can't live up to their cap number? 26 to 30 or so are usually the prime years for players.

I also don't understand how adding good players that will have every chance to live up to their cap number for the next 2 or 3 years is not building a team? What counts as building a team if that doesn't?

I don't assume players over 26 can't live up to their cap number.

What I am saying is that if are focusing mid and long term, we should concentrate on players around 26 years old.

I would not be signing or extending players that will not justify their salary by their play. We all love Cam and Taysom and Demario but their current salary reflect more what they have done than what they will do on the future.

I have different priorities than Loomis right now.

We may be close to win the division, but we are not even close to compete for a Super Bowl.

My main focus should be latter, and in order to do so, I would rejuvenate the team, thinking on having a players reaching their prime at the time we will be able to compete for a championship, and that won't happen in 2025 or 2026.

 

[St. Widge]

I don't assume players over 26 can't live up to their cap number.

What I am saying is that if are focusing mid and long term, we should concentrate on players around 26 years old.

I would not be signing or extending players that will not justify their salary by their play. We all love Cam and Taysom and Demario but their current salary reflect more what they have done than what they will do on the future.

I have different priorities than Loomis right now.

We may be close to win the division, but we are not even close to compete for a Super Bowl.

My main focus should be latter, and in order to do so, I would rejuvenate the team, thinking on having a players reaching their prime at the time we will be able to compete for a championship, and that won't happen in 2025 or 2026.

I mean they signed Reid who just turned 28 and Young who is about to be 26. I guess Johnson is a little older than I would like, but they didn't have many other options at TE. It's not like they went out and signed a bunch of 33 and 34 year-old players.

And they didn't extend Cam, Taysom, Mathieu, or Demario. Only Demario got the standard restructure which did not extend his deal. And not only did Cam, Taysom, and Mathieu not get extensions, but two of them took pay cuts and Hill is likely to as well.

And again, winning the division is just the first step toward becoming a great team and eventually winning the Super Bowl again. You can't just skip the steps in the middle unless you get lucky and get a franchise QB. And even then, the Bengals and Joe Burrow are the ever gold example of tearing it down and tanking working, but the one year they got to the Super Bowl, they went 10-7 in the regular season which is only one win better than they have had the last two years when they didn't even make the playoffs.

 

[No2DC]

One offseason wasn’t enough time to fortify Klint Kubiaks system. For that system to work, you need to be two D at every OLine position. And the third string must be able to play multiple positions.

Depth and guys who can play multiple positions are needed for any system, as there are only so many roster spots. Again, this is ultimately a FO (talent) and coaching( making the most of said talent). My position is not so much that injuries are irrelevant, just that good organizations can overcome injuries and retain a level of completeness.

 

[Rexman100]

Depth and guys who can play multiple positions are needed for any system, as there are only so many roster spots. Again, this is ultimately a FO (talent) and coaching( making the most of said talent). My position is not so much that injuries are irrelevant, just that good organizations can overcome injuries and retain a level of completeness.

IMO, KKs system is highly likely that the backups will have significant platying time. Unlike our previous system that just required an Olineman to hold up a few seconds pass blocking.

 

[WilliamBrees]

I don’t buy into the injuries excuse. It’s cool to say it, as a coping mechanism, but 4 out of the top 10 teams that lost the most points due to injuries, made the playoffs (Lions, Bucs, Steelers, and Texans). The main thing, when deciding if a team is good or not, is the depth chart. If your depth chart is underwhelming, then you are not a good team…….you are just a top heavy team. If you can’t build a competent roster, where guys can fill in, due to injuries, then you are lacking at assembling a roster. Good/great teams overcome obstacles. However, if I were to play the “injuries” game, then I would say we were going to be nothing more than an average team bc that was the ceiling that coach showed was his best. I only go by what facts have presented

Those four teams all got exposed too. The NFC North's three playoff teams went 12-0 against the AFC South and 11-1 against the NFC West which speaks more to how mediocre those divisions were. They're not even going 7-5 against the AFC North or NFC East. Texans couldn't cut it down the stretch. Steelers also struck out against the elite teams but they have Tomlin that helps them grind out 9-10 wins. Bucs...we know why.

 

[WilliamBrees]

If that's the case, I guess we think Shaheed is our number one receiver.

 

[texasjefe]

Nick, free agency's a little slow for us right now. The draft is too far out, and money is tight now that we're on year 2 of 3-year cap cleanup.

How about you cast some revelation-sounding rehash bait on 'was it injuries or was it coaching' in 2024? The "it was injuries" folks will buy your $9.95-worthy feel-better-about-the-roster and wish-cast 2024 up to 9 or 10 wins. The Allen haters will feel good about Kellen Moore.

Thanks Nick!