Underhill article: “Saints moves are telling us what they felt the real problem with the team was last season” (129 Viewers)

[Optimistic Ozzy]

I wonder how teams would fare if they lost, Mahommes, Burrow, Josh Allen, etc? I don't think they would do well. Just like us last year. We were completely decimated with injuries. Hopefully with a new training staff and luck, we can stay somewhat healthy.

 

[Snakehead]

It's hilarious people on here think they know better than the coaching staff.

"Next man up" is coach speak. Everyone knows it. I've listened to NFL Radio where on multiple shows and IIRC, especially Moving the Chains, where they laugh at that comment. Your backups aren't as good as your starters, that's why they are backups. Now quality depth and that quality depth playing well when their number is called is important.

Injuries derailed the season, that's an absolute fact. Games 1 and 2 prove that. However, it was when the injuries started to mount up DA being on thin ice and not being able to keep the team from falling apart gave Gayle all she needed to move on. The defense where he excels regressed and they weren't hit as bad with injuries so that added more fuel.

Rizzi rallied the team for a bit, but he also benefited from some of the players getting healthy as the season went on.

The whole point of the article and comments from the coaches, is the team isn't as bad as the record last year. That's it. It doesn't mean it's a SB team, but it's not a 1st overall pick team. They are adding pieces to the foundation to try and take down TB in the division as that is always the 1st goal, win the division.

The NFC is top heavy with Philly, Detroit, and Washington, but after that there are question marks due to player and coaching turnover.

 

[SweetT]

It's hilarious people on here think they know better than the coaching staff.

"Next man up" is coach speak. Everyone knows it. I've listened to NFL Radio where on multiple shows and IIRC, especially Moving the Chains, where they laugh at that comment. Your backups aren't as good as your starters, that's why they are backups. Now quality depth and that quality depth playing well when their number is called is important.

Injuries derailed the season, that's an absolute fact. Games 1 and 2 prove that. However, it was when the injuries started to mount up DA being on thin ice and not being able to keep the team from falling apart gave Gayle all she needed to move on. The defense where he excels regressed and they weren't hit as bad with injuries so that added more fuel.

Rizzi rallied the team for a bit, but he also benefited from some of the players getting healthy as the season went on.

The whole point of the article and comments from the coaches, is the team isn't as bad as the record last year. That's it. It doesn't mean it's a SB team, but it's not a 1st overall pick team. They are adding pieces to the foundation to try and take down TB in the division as that is always the 1st goal, win the division.

The NFC is top heavy with Philly, Detroit, and Washington, but after that there are question marks due to player and coaching turnover.

Lol, your backups don’t have to be good as your starters. Plus, if any athlete laughs at the “next man up” mantra, then they are not worth being in a sport. No one builds a roster thinking that their backups cannot hold their own. No backup thinks that they cannot provide the help that is needed from them. Look at Cam’s recent comment about the DE depth chart. He literally believes that the entire DE unit can be contributors. Thats the difference between an A1 player who believes (and should believe) vs some talking head that is not worth the salt on a 2 day old bagel.

 

[sainthood]

The difference is the Andy Dalton Bengals versus the Joe Burrow Bengals (i.e. the Dalton Bengals were one and done in the playoffs for years, respectable and mediocre). The Bengals finally bottomed out and drafted high enough to get Burrow and Chase and reinvigorated their franchise. The Carr Saints are the Dalton Bengals at their best and they haven't even managed that in a mediocre to bad division. My hope was to tank for Arch Manning.

 

[Snakehead]

Lol, your backups don’t have to be good as your starters. Plus, if any athlete laughs at the “next man up” mantra, then they are not worth being in a sport. No one builds a roster thinking that their backups cannot hold their own. No backup thinks that they cannot provide the help that is needed from them. Look at Cam’s recent comment about the DE depth chart. He literally believes that the entire DE unit can be contributors. Thats the difference between an A1 player who believes (and should believe) vs some talking head that is not worth the salt on a 2 day old bagel.

Jim Miller and Pat Kirwin's comments carry weight and they weren't the only ones I've heard say that. It's coach speak, everyone knows it.

There was a lot of things that went wrong last season, but to think injuries weren't one of them is ridiculous.

Should the guys who had to step in and play been better, absolutely. That's why there was wholesale changes across the coaching staff.

 

[saint_drago]

I think improving the depth and keeping players healthier will lead to a much better season. We'll have a clearer picture of the depth situation after the undrafted free agent signing period. Unfortunately, we won't know how the health issue looks until the season is over. Fingers crossed though.

The biggest change they made was probably the most important and could create the biggest improvement. Better coaching can get better results out of the same players. I'm not saying better coaching can turn a back up into an all pro, but it can be the difference between a player being a solid backup or a weak backup. It can also make your good players even better.

This is a good way to look at it. Personally I'm not knocked out by our current depth chart but staying healthy and having better coaching can't hurt. If your starters are healthy then you're bound to be better by default. How many times have we seen a new coaching staff come in and teams turn it around quickly? It's fairly routine. For the Saints the buy in wasn't there with Dennis Allen. His message was falling on deaf ears. But even if the players were all in and ready to run through walls for DA, they weren't healthy enough to do anything significant.

Better coaching. Better scheme on both sides of the ball. A little luck with injuries. Throw in a dash of young talent and we might be working with something. But more than anything else I now have hope again. That's the most important thing. From fans to players, we all need hope. We might win 4 games this season and whatever will be will be but here on St. Patrick's Day 2025 I sit at my desk and I type, and I have hope.

 

[SweetT]

Jim Miller and Pat Kirwin's comments carry weight and they weren't the only ones I've heard say that. It's coach speak, everyone knows it.

There was a lot of things that went wrong last season, but to think injuries weren't one of them is ridiculous.

Should the guys who had to step in and play been better, absolutely. That's why there was wholesale changes across the coaching staff.

Everything that comes out of a coach’s mouth is coach speak. A lot of it has truth and some of it is pandering to media. Next man up is not pandering. If you don’t believe in your players, if your teammates don’t believe in you, and if you don’t believe in yourself, then the game is not worth being played. There wouldn’t be any training camp battles for a spot. There wouldn’t be a reason to coach every player. There wouldn’t be any reason to call substitutions. Do you not remember when SP would call substitutions on darn near every snap? He believed that all of his guys would perform when their numbers were called. Are you serious right now? Tell me you have played a sport and had to depend on someone that wasn’t a starter?!?! The heck do you think we call that? Let me guess what Kirwin or Miller calls it….. “Scrub Sub”?!?! The absolute first goal is to instantly get that player mentally right and build that confidence. Football is a sport where everyone’s job is directly correlated to the person next to you. That’s why it’s the ultimate team sport. Hence, next man up.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

This is a good way to look at it. Personally I'm not knocked out by our current depth chart but staying healthy and having better coaching can't hurt. If your starters are healthy then you're bound to be better by default. How many times have we seen a new coaching staff come in and teams turn it around quickly? It's fairly routine. For the Saints the buy in wasn't there with Dennis Allen. His message was falling on deaf ears. But even if the players were all in and ready to run through walls for DA, they weren't healthy enough to do anything significant.

Better coaching. Better scheme on both sides of the ball. A little luck with injuries. Throw in a dash of young talent and we might be working with something. But more than anything else I now have hope again. That's the most important thing. From fans to players, we all need hope. We might win 4 games this season and whatever will be will be but here on St. Patrick's Day 2025 I sit at my desk and I type, and I have hope.

"I Hope"---Red Redding--Shawshank Redemption.

 

[TalleyHo1]

The difference is the Andy Dalton Bengals versus the Joe Burrow Bengals (i.e. the Dalton Bengals were one and done in the playoffs for years, respectable and mediocre). The Bengals finally bottomed out and drafted high enough to get Burrow and Chase and reinvigorated their franchise. The Carr Saints are the Dalton Bengals at their best and they haven't even managed that in a mediocre to bad division. My hope was to tank for Arch Manning.

Tank? Something the Saints do not believe in and will not do. Not intentionally anyway. Tank for two years? Arch ain't coming out til 2027 or later.

 

[webster]

I don’t buy into the injuries excuse. It’s cool to say it, as a coping mechanism, but 4 out of the top 10 teams that lost the most points due to injuries, made the playoffs (Lions, Bucs, Steelers, and Texans). The main thing, when deciding if a team is good or not, is the depth chart. If your depth chart is underwhelming, then you are not a good team…….you are just a top heavy team. If you can’t build a competent roster, where guys can fill in, due to injuries, then you are lacking at assembling a roster. Good/great teams overcome obstacles. However, if I were to play the “injuries” game, then I would say we were going to be nothing more than an average team bc that was the ceiling that coach showed was his best. I only go by what facts have presented

Losing our starting qb and not having a legit backup tanked the season.

 

[fishing4food]

Our healthy LB's can't cover running backs and tight ends and our safety can't tackle and our healthy defensive lineman couldn't stop the run. On offense, if one player went down they were pulling players off the street to fill in. It was more than just injuries. You could include lack of depth at positions. The team was tied for last place in one of the worst divisions in the NFL and beat no team with a winning record. We just stunk. Period..... New coach, upcoming draft and a positive outlook moving forward is our best hope.

 

[Boy_of_wonder75]

I think people are overlooking when the injuries occurred and how many were concurrent. There were some games when we were playing with fewer than 30% of the starting offense. Every team has injuries, certainly, but does every team have them to one position group at the same time?

 

[SweetT]

Losing our starting qb and not having a legit backup tanked the season.

It was DA’s decision to not sign a seasoned veteran QB as a backup. Many teams make sure they have a veteran backup. We didn’t have to roll with Jazzy J and Rattler. Could’ve just kept one.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

It was DA’s decision to not sign a seasoned veteran QB as a backup. Many teams make sure they have a veteran backup. We didn’t have to roll with Jazzy J and Rattler. Could’ve just kept one.

I agree, but with that offensive line and no receivers, not sure what good a vet would do.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

That the organization is still trying to reload rather than rebuild is disappointing but hardly surprising.

Yes, injuries can affect even really good teams like the Saints in 2018, and injuries adversely affected the Saints in 2024. But injuries are part of the game, and in 2024, injuries underscored that we have no depth.

At present, our over-under win number for 2025 is 6.5. With a good draft and better coaching, it could be a win too low in a mediocre division. But I would suggest that reality is that we lack our quarterback of the future; we have few red-chip (top five at their position) or blue-chip (top 10 at their position) players; we have few foundation players under 30; we have terrible depth; and we will still have for the next two years (and likely for a longer period) a horrible salary-cap position relative to that of most of the other teams in the league (which means in free agency not that we can't sign some players, but that we can't sign some of the players we would really like to sign and can't sign as many players as other teams).

I have no position on our new coaching staff--Moore was not my top choice because of concerns over his personality. But I recognize that I did not interview or study the top candidates the way those conducting the coaching staff did and that NFL history shows that not every highly successful head coach has the personality of Vince Lombardi. I am willing to give Moore a chance.

My concern is that Loomis, who must be approaching 70, remains at the top of the organizational pyramid. We can agree to disagree, and no one on this forum has the contacts inside the NFL to show that his position is right. But my sense is that those inside the league--the other general managers and their assistants, and the top personnel people and coaches--do not see Mickey Loomis as an upper-tier general manager or team executive like Howie Roseman, Mark Murphy, Brian Gutekunst, Brad Holmes, Les Snead, John Lynch, Brandon Beane, Eric DeCosta, Brett Veach, John Schneider, and I would add Nick Caserio and Kwesi Adofo-Mensah. In fact, I believe a survey of league "insiders" would currently put Loomis in the bottom half of general managers--and a number would put him in the bottom quarter because of philosophical differences over how Loomis has constantly traded away draft picks and managed the salary cap over the years.

I know there are some (though now probably a minority) who disagree even strongly with my analysis. But hopefully we can all agree on this: Winning and losing in the NFL begins at the very top of the organization, and there is no more important question in professional football than whether the organization has the right management in place.