Underhill article: “Saints moves are telling us what they felt the real problem with the team was last season” (64 Viewers)

[No2DC]

IMO, KKs system is highly likely that the backups will have significant platying time. Unlike our previous system that just required an Olineman to hold up a few seconds pass blocking.

Still a FO/coaching issue. Why would one assume that DA had multiple years to add talent for that system?

 

[St. Widge]

This seems interesting and relevant here. Apparently the Saints led the NFL in unique offensive lineups last year at 541. So, the injury thing on offense wasn't just imagination and clearly was worse than many others with of course all the caveats that you should have better depth to deal with that and you have to have better coaching, but that's still essentially impossible to overcome to be even an average offense.

On the other hand, the Falcons had amazing luck on offensive injuries and only had 104 unique offensive lineups.

By the way, I'm not exactly sure how they define "unique offense lineup". I assume it's the number of different formations and the variations of guys in those unique formations that were used over the year.

 

[WilliamBrees]

31 teams get exposed on a yearly basis.
What is your point?

Lions wouldn't be 15-2 or Vikings 14-3 without the schedule they had. Even we could have beaten the Jaguars, Titans, Colts, and 49ers. Texans still had a bad division, decent protection, Mixon, Collins, they lost their 2 and 3 receivers. Steelers started out 8-2 and then injuries started occurring. They closed out the year 2-5.

None of these teams suffered injuries the way we did.

 

[sfidc3]

The problem I have is that the folks on Airline tellling us we have a good roster are the same people who insisted that we had a great coaching staff under DA.

If the new staff is OK with the hand they've been dealt, that makes me feel better, for sure. But I put zero faith in what the front office says or believes any more.

Yup, completely understood, I'm just hoping that CKM has as much leeway/decision making power than it seems the FO claims....we will see what happens.....

 

[Rexman100]

Still a FO/coaching issue. Why would one assume that DA had multiple years to add talent for that system?

Yep, DA was set up to fail, seriously. But at least he had his chance to defeat the odds. But he couldn’t do it.

 

[Rexman100]

Exactly. Like I said, after our 2-0 start, our team started making the same mistakes as the previous two years. Thats why I’m not sure we would’ve won more than 7 or 8 games. It was frustrating to watch. I also said that losing became infectious. 2 games to start a season doesn’t automatically cure that. It’s something that need to be rid of over the course of time.

I’m going to agree with you again. Because I remember like LSU last year, the Saints would have a chance to win the game. Then they’d end up going three and out and the other team would close them out.

 

[webster]

Luckily we don't have that problem this year since Rattler is now a season pro after all those snaps he took last year.

Yes, I agree that would make some sense although he would be a bad backup, but at least a seasoned bad backup.

 

[DerrickB]

If they just thought it was injuries then why dd they fire DA?

The team checked out on him. Mentality

 

[RJS]

The lack of depth on last year's as a roster overall might be true, but not where it ended up mattering most. The team went into training camp last year with a starting OL of Fuaga/Saldeveri/McCoy/Ruiz/Penning.

They signed Lucas Patrick and Shane Lemieux to be the primary backups on the interior. Both had experience playing guard and center. They're exactly what you want as IOL depth.

Saldeveri gets hurt and that moves Patrick into the starting guard spot (taking away McCoy's #1 backup). McCoy gets hurt week 3 and the shuffling starts. Lemieux and Ruiz both then get hurt and they now are on the street finding a center. It was a crazy cluster of injuries.

I was way more worried about the depth at tackle than I was at IOL going into last year. They just got crushed at the one position group that they had a good plan for. Stuff happens.

 

[DerrickB]

Wow did not wanna hear that blaming a teams bad season on injuries.... so your saying DA was not the problem.....
Just lost a little faith in this coaching staff before they even drafted or started training camp

For real?

 

[St. Widge]

The lack of depth on last year's as a roster overall might be true, but not where it ended up mattering most. The team went into training camp last year with a starting OL of Fuaga/Saldeveri/McCoy/Ruiz/Penning.

They signed Lucas Patrick and Shane Lemieux to be the primary backups on the interior. Both had experience playing guard and center. They're exactly what you want as IOL depth.

Saldeveri gets hurt and that moves Patrick into the starting guard spot (taking away McCoy's #1 backup). McCoy gets hurt week 3 and the shuffling starts. Lemieux and Ruiz both then get hurt and they now are on the street finding a center. It was a crazy cluster of injuries.

I was way more worried about the depth at tackle than I was at IOL going into last year. They just got crushed at the one position group that they had a good plan for. Stuff happens.

The injuries certainly hit the IOL hard, but a big part of the problem is that one of the guys they were counting on to be good all across the line was Udoh and he was terrible every place they played him. And, while Saldiveri and Lemieux were hurt at times, they never lived up to potential either. The only IOL of the "backup" guys that played okay was Patrick. The rest of the depth behind him was pretty bad.

The injuries hit the WRs bad too, but again, the guy they were counting on to be the solid veteran, Cedrick Wilson, did next to nothing which means that rookies and street free agents signed during the season had to take too many snaps.

So, while the concentration of injuries was a major problem, a misevaluation of the quality of the depth was also an issue at both positions.

But all this again is an issue with not drafting well enough, not taking enough draft picks over the years, and not developing young players well enough. The way to have quality depth is to draft well and develop mid-to-late round guys into good backups. Quality depth is too expensive to buy when you need it at nearly every position because you draft like 6 guys a year and don't hit on enough of those.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

If they just thought it was injuries then why dd they fire DA?

Apparently, he wouldn’t have been fired by the GM if not for the owner gauging the opinion of some key players, a seven game losing streak with the last one to Carolina.

As much as I wanted DA to go, those injuries were insurmountable for any coach. Some don’t agree, but I thought Kubiak did a good job working with the scraps he had left. It was job too difficult to mask the deficiencies for entire games.

 

[SweetT]

Weird how we found those 2 WRs late in the year and they actually did at least do something (MVS and Pettis). Why couldn’t we spot cheap talent like that before the season? They sorta fit the system better than Cedrick and whoever was after him on the depth chart.

 

[SweetT]

Apparently, he wouldn’t have been fired by the GM if not for the owner gauging the opinion of some key players, a seven game losing streak with the last one to Carolina.

As much as I wanted DA to go, those injuries were insurmountable for any coach. Some don’t agree, but I thought Kubiak did a good job working with the scraps he had left. It was job too difficult to mask the deficiencies for entire games.

3 of those 7 games in the losing streak was winnable, despite injuries. That HC was finding historical ways to lose. Does anyone not remember this? It was major headlines!!! 3 one score games. All 3 of those games we lost by three points or less. Why are we blaming injuries again? Our team was just not good. Good teams finds ways to win. DA has proved that he couldn’t get his team to seize the moment. Pulling out one score games, especially 3 points or less, instills confidence in a team. Once a team drops easily winnable games, doubts start to creep in. It was already in the back of their minds from previous years. Injuries is just an excuse. We had opportunities to win games.

 

[DSnfla]

Lol, your backups don’t have to be good as your starters. Plus, if any athlete laughs at the “next man up” mantra, then they are not worth being in a sport. No one builds a roster thinking that their backups cannot hold their own. No backup thinks that they cannot provide the help that is needed from them. Look at Cam’s recent comment about the DE depth chart. He literally believes that the entire DE unit can be contributors. Thats the difference between an A1 player who believes (and should believe) vs some talking head that is not worth the salt on a 2 day old bagel.

Of course every player thinks he can do the job. Yes who would want anyone that didn't think so. But that " Next Man Up" is a motivational tool and not reality. Reality is that almost all of the time the backup and even more so the backup's backup like we had with the OL last yr is nowhere as good as the starter. That's just the fact. And even if the backups don't have to be as good as the starters the drop off especially when you lose multiple starters is very apparent and you lose games because of it