Underhill thinks Carr will be Saints starter [mod edit: Moore-Carr meeting went well; Saints plan is to keep Carr in 2025 & figure out contract] (72 Viewers)

[StudioSaint]

Just as Kubiak was happy to have DC. What fools they are

You can add Gruden to the list as well. The Saints have 3 ex NFL QB's on the team that know what good QB play looks like, because they couldn't achieve that level of play themselves. Indications are they all think highly of Carr as a QB and are looking forward to working with him. I don't think all 3 of them are wrong about Carr, but if they are, then the Saints are screwed.

And no, I'm not saying that Carr is an elite Hall of Famer QB or that they think Carr is an elite Hall of Famer QB.

A team does not have to have an elite Hall of Famer QB to win a lot of games and the Super Bowl and having one doesn't guarantee a team will win a Super Bowl. Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton and Warren Moon are definitive proof of that. I have a sneaking suspicion that Joe Burrow will end up joining that group, because of the Bengal's front office and ownership. I wouldn't be surprised if Burrow doesn't eventually end up on another team.

 

[Hubig]

You can add Gruden to the list as well. The Saints have 3 ex NFL QB's on the team that know what good QB play looks like, because they couldn't achieve that level of play themselves. Indications are they all think highly of Carr as a QB and are looking forward to working with him. I don't think all 3 of them are wrong about Carr, but if they are, then the Saints are screwed.

And no, I'm not saying that Carr is an elite Hall of Famer QB or that they think Carr is an elite Hall of Famer QB.

A team does not have to have an elite Hall of Famer QB to win a lot of games and the Super Bowl and having one doesn't guarantee a team will win a Super Bowl. Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Fran Tarkenton and Warren Moon are definitive proof of that. I have a sneaking suspicion that Joe Burrow will end up joining that group, because of the Bengal's front office and ownership. I wouldn't be surprised if Burrow doesn't eventually end up on another team.

If you have a midtier QB, to win a superbowl, your defense better be either historic or borderline historic.

 

[DSnfla]

If you have a midtier QB, to win a superbowl, your defense better be either historic or borderline historic.

That's not really accurate. No grreat , elite QB has ever won a SB without a very good team behind him, but there have been quite a few teams that have won SB with just OK QBs.
Prime example is this yrs Eagles, I don't think that Hurts is an elite QB. I think he's a good QB, but the Eagles team is very good

I've always been in favor of building the TEAM 1st because if you have a very good team then you CAN win a SB without the elite QB. But you can't win a SB with just an elite QB

Build the best , fastest race car and who drives is not as important to winning the race

 

[StudioSaint]

If you have a midtier QB, to win a superbowl, your defense better be either historic or borderline historic.

You're assuming Carr is just middle tier. Moore thinks he's better than that.

Even so, you don't have to have a "historic or borderline historic" defense to win with a Super Bowl with a middle tier QB. You just have to have a solid offense, defense, special teams and really good coaching.

 

[St. Geezy]

Doesn't seem like they're all that torn. Neither of them think it's the right way to go but have to accept it as beat reporters that it's the way the team is going. The ending where they were comparing to other teams was most relevant to me and I think it's where fans have philosophical differences.

Do you want to be the Steelers and make the playoffs 4 out of the last 5 years just to get bounced in the wildcard game every time? Or do you want to be the Commanders, get that top QB and make the NFC Championship game and feel like the next year could be the year? After quite a few years of being not even as good as the Steelers, I'm ready to try the Commanders route. I'm ready to make Rattler our Sam Howell and if he fails like Howell did you might get a Jayden Daniels.

Odds are stronger that you end up like the Jaguars, right back where you started, even after drafting the so called can’t miss product at QB and having all the massive cap space.

There is no perfect formula. You should never TRY to be bad; if it happens on accident, great, but don’t make efforts to achieve it as a get-right strategy.

 

[Ghost]

But don't you know that the QB is responsible for every defensive snap every offensive snap and every ST snap in a football game. He's even responsible for the temperature of the gatorade , ohhhh and the color as well. Sarcasm Off

It’s ok we get why you want to avoid when it’s pointed out you made a claim that was plainly false, twice.

 

[Snakehead]

You're assuming Carr is just middle tier. Moore thinks he's better than that.

Even so, you don't have to have a "historic or borderline historic" defense to win with a Super Bowl with a middle tier QB. You just have to have a solid offense, defense, special teams and really good coaching.

A good running game is key as well.

Teams are starting to go back to a 90s style team build, good or better QB, WR and RB. Then add a good supporting cast around them at TE, WR2, etc. Moore just did it in Philly, good QB with his weaknesses minimized, stud RB in Barkley and a stud WR1 in AJ Brown. The supporting cast was Goodert and Smith, combine that with a dominant O-line and Defense, and the modern version of a 90s offense took down the current modern dynasty team in the Chiefs.

I can envision Moore building something like that with the Saints.

 

[Ghost]

I get that, but aren't you making that point in support of the bigger point that a QB can be accurately graded by the win-loss record of their team?

I’m making the point that is a person is going to try an argue a point with facts they should make sure those facts are correct. Not keep repeating them especially when pointed out as false.

As to your other points. Different thought entirely and one I’d engage with once we acknowledge and are able to move on from my point. And should probably be broken out to its own thread as a different topic as long as we are clear what is being discussed.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

People forget that Carr has spent most his career with bad coaches. The one time he had a good coach (Gruden) he was performing as a top 10 QB (really more like a top 6?) in 2019 and 2020 and the Raiders were rivaling the Chiefs in the AFC West.

And come to think of it, we just watched the Eagles win a Super Bowl with Hurtz as QB proving you don’t need a top 5 QB to win a Super Bowl, though it certainly increases your chances.

But this secures Moore’s bridge QB and gives him options. If they think Rattler is the better option for the future they would go with him. If they think someone in this draft or the next is his guy, they’ll go with that QB. Until then, it sounds like Derek Carr is our worst option and best option at QB until that guy is found. If Carr is under center in week 1, I suspect that puts a nail in the coffin of Rattler as a QB1. Zero reason for Rattler to not be under center week 1 if Moore believes he’s his guy going forward.

 

[St. Geezy]

People forget that Carr has spent most his career with bad coaches. The one time he had a good coach (Gruden) he was performing as a top 10 QB (really more like a top 6?) in 2019 and 2020 and the Raiders were rivaling the Chiefs in the AFC West.

And come to think of it, we just watched the Eagles win a Super Bowl with Hurtz as QB proving you don’t need a top 5 QB to win a Super Bowl, though it certainly increases your chances.

But this secures Moore’s bridge QB and gives him options. If they think Rattler is the better option for the future they would go with him. If they think someone in this draft or the next is his guy, they’ll go with that QB. Until then, it sounds like Derek Carr is our worst option and best option at QB until that guy is found. If Carr is under center in week 1, I suspect that puts a nail in the coffin of Rattler as a QB1. Zero reason for Rattler to not be under center week 1 if Moore believes he’s his guy going forward.

Yep. Carr finished 3rd in MVP voting back in 2016 when he actually had a good team and coach. Was also one of only two years where his defense there was at least somewhat decent and not a total disaster (ranked 20th).