US ports longshoremen’s strike (East and Gulf coasts) (3 Viewers)

[CapitalCitySaint]

I am all for workers fighting for more no matter what and if that is using the power of the union to squeeze every bit of juice out that they can, then so be it. Corporate greed is at an all-time high and the middle class is disappearing. We the people need some way to fight back and do what little we can to balance the scales a little more in our favor because it's been apparent that our corporate overlords and government do not have interest in doing so. I wish I was part of a union. Maybe I should find a job at the port lol.

The only thing they are going to struggle with is automation. It's a part of life for everyone in any kind of job. Industries need to do a better job at helping people get educated/trained on new skills that will help them parlay their knowledge & skills so they can transition into a new career in their industry or adjacent industry.

In my job (Biotech), my company has exceeded revenue targets every single year that I have worked there (6 years) yet never once have we been paid out our full profit-sharing bonus. Mine is at 25% of my annual salary as a director. They always have some reason that you end up getting 80% of what you should have gotten. Or like this year, 10%. Yet our CEO is doing better than ever! Just got a new yacht.

They also sent out this really toxic gas-lighty email last month. These were the highlights:

- Work hard & persevere. Even in an era when "work-life-balance" has become a popular term, there is no substitute for effort, especially early in your career.
- Do more than you were asked! Surprise your boss
- Don't delegate upward - bring your boss solutions (while everyone is micro-managed)
- Volunteer for challenging assignments
- Seek opportunities to present

Like sorry guys but we are all tired and burned out since most of us are already doing the job that is meant to be done by 3 or more people. Nobody wants to take on more.

I recall when I worked for a non-profit healthcare system. Every 1-2 years I worked there (6.5 years), they would do a mass round of layoffs. The 2nd to last round before I ended up being laid off myself, they knew layoffs were coming so they gave everyone director level and above a 30% bonus while everyone manager level and below got 2.9%.

 

[HoustonGold]

Never worked for a union either but I do know that employees pay a union due that usually comes out of the paycheck. I have no idea if that is a pre-tax deduction. The amount likely varies depending on the union.

Union CEO’s must live the high life too. All they give employees is a picnic once a year?

 

[Merl]

Normally you see this and it's the big company and CEOs that are the bad guys, but now the script is flipped and the employees and union are being made out to be the bad guys.

Also for note of reference, the starting pay for longshoremen on the east coast tends to be around $20 per hour starting pay and tops out at $39 per hour, as opposed to the west coast which has an average of $43.82 per hour, so that does take into account starting to top end, I believe I saw where $54 an hour was the top rate on the west coast.

The 50% increase the employers offered would put the east coast workers above the west coast ones and they flat refused that. I also heard that the offered included a triple increase in pension benefits. I heard someone on a news channel say that but haven't seen anything to confirm it.

Edit: just found this.

"The group of terminal operators and ocean container lines said their new offer would increase wages by nearly 50%, triple employer contributions to union retirement plans, strengthen health care options, and retain the current language around automation and semi-automation. No further details were disclosed."

https://www.agweb.com/news/industry/port-employers-exchange-new-contract-offers-longshore-union-bid-avert-strike

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

Maybe it's extortion when either is doing it?

It ain't no fun when the rabbit got the gun.

It's not like the oppressors will suddenly stop oppressing just because they've had a sudden guilt trip/change of heart.

 

[zeetes]

Normally you see this and it's the big company and CEOs that are the bad guys, but now the script is flipped and the employees and union are being made out to be the bad guys.

Also for note of reference, the starting pay for longshoremen on the east coast tends to be around $20 per hour starting pay and tops out at $39 per hour, as opposed to the west coast which has an average of $43.82 per hour, so that does take into account starting to top end, I believe I saw where $54 an hour was the top rate on the west coast.

9 or 10 of the top 20 most expensive cities to live are in california alone, so i really don't see a problem with the pay. there are maybe 2 eastern port cities on the list; ny/nj, and baltimore. baltimore doesn't even crack the top 25.

 

[HoustonGold]

Anybody remember the UPS and automobile strike in the 90’s ? Didn’t they quit given assistance and employees had to go back to work?

STRIKE FAQ - UAW | United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America

uaw.org

 

[Tapxe]

Yeah, apparently average pay for an ILA member is $81K per year. That's a pretty good number for relatively skilled labor and they are being offered a 50% increase over that. I get their issues on automation, but the pay seems very reasonable even at the old number.

It's almost like moving industry overseas for cheap labor is now biting the hand that feeds it.

 

[Sailorsaint]

from what i understand is ,this is the hill to die on for them. that they will not budge on, to the lengths they want any automation done in the last 6 years removed.

If true, imo, they (union boss) have a political agenda and are using the workers as pawns. The package as described by Merl, if accurate, seems pretty fair. Why else would you insist on a nonstarter like “no automation at all”?

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

9 or 10 of the top 20 most expensive cities to live are in california alone, so i really don't see a problem with the pay. there are maybe 2 eastern port cities on the list; ny/nj, and baltimore. baltimore doesn't even crack the top 25.

Yeah, $43.82/hour is $91K/year and after federal + state income tax, MINIMUM $2k rent for a crappy tiny place+ expensive gas, super high cost of utilities in any coastal California area - is nothing. You'd still have to have either roomies or a partner to share bills with to live comfortably enough to where one life emergency/expensive car repair didn't bankrupt you.

 

[Maxp]

How do we know the ports haven't invested in the automation necessary to layoff most of the longshoreman in the last 6 years. These companies have enjoyed record profits, often at tax payer expense upwards of 800% since COVID. Furthermore, I've read most of the companies are foreign owned.

I worked for a company that emerged from bankruptcy during COVID, then merged three times. In the second merger, they were forced to divest of certain assets for a sale price of $350 million. What did they do with that money? Did they invest it in new assets or needed maintenance of old equipment? Did they give their workers who were nickle and dimed and straight up stranded in foreign countries a bonus? No, the board authorized $350 million in stock by backs then rewarded themselves with stock options. The pay disparity between the executives and live workers has far exceeded balance and needs a correction.

 

[efil4stnias]

Normally you see this and it's the big company and CEOs that are the bad guys, but now the script is flipped and the employees and union are being made out to be the bad guys.

Also for note of reference, the starting pay for longshoremen on the east coast tends to be around $20 per hour starting pay and tops out at $39 per hour, as opposed to the west coast which has an average of $43.82 per hour, so that does take into account starting to top end, I believe I saw where $54 an hour was the top rate on the west coast.

Its the timing of it. On the surface, very suspect.

5 weeks out from Presidential election, Dagget with Trump in photos, his pending retirement and the demands.

I still say, imo, the timing was for as much leverage as possible and not some nefarious coordinated strike w/ either politician.

However, as it turns out, ILA President Harold Daggett - drives a Bentley. Owned ( recently sold ) a 74ft yacht and makes $728,000/yr as President of ILA and $173,000/yr as President of local union branch.

The optics here are pretty shallow. Here is a guy pocketing close to a $1,000,000/yr in salary, travel paid for thru union etc and he is banging the drum for MORE money for the worker.

So why is he earning that much money? would $400,000/yr cover him? $500,000? i mean lets be real here.

here is ILA charter- ( dues formula on page 32 )

Loading…

ilaunion.org

lets just say, on average, members pay $450 annual dues x 85,000 member =$38,250,000 a year the Union takes in on dues. Thats a LOT of chedda.

Im ALL for the little guy to get paid. Just like NFLers- get it while you can. But lets be quite clear here about who asking for what from whom to benefit who exactly. Daggett isnt some philanthropic do-gooder.

It all stinks imo. and in the end, its the dock worker who gets crapped on, regardless. Maddening.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

How do we know the ports haven't invested in the automation necessary to layoff most of the longshoreman in the last 6 years. These companies have enjoyed record profits, often at tax payer expense upwards of 800% since COVID. Furthermore, I've read most of the companies are foreign owned.

I worked for a company that emerged from bankruptcy during COVID, then merged three times. In the second merger, they were forced to divest of certain assets for a sale price of $350 million. What did they do with that money? Did they invest it in new assets or needed maintenance of old equipment? Did they give their workers who were nickle and dimed and straight up stranded in foreign countries a bonus? No, the board authorized $350 million in stock by backs then rewarded themselves with stock options. The pay disparity between the executives and live workers has far exceeded balance and needs a correction.

from what i understand the automation clause was in the last contract. and they did do some automation, and the union wants it take out as part of the new deal.

I don't think anyone is really taking the side of the corporatioins, but the union here is making it hard to sympathize with them.

 

[St. Widge]

It ain't no fun when the rabbit got the gun.

It's not like the oppressors will suddenly stop oppressing just because they've had a sudden guilt trip/change of heart.

Okay. Corporations are evil. They only care about profit. That's a given. But that doesn't mean that every demand from every worker is reasonable. In this case, it appears that a 50% pay raise over 6 years which brings them above West Coast longshoremen who live in a place with a much higher cost of living than say New Orleans, along with increased pension benefits and health care are reasonable. Frankly, an average of $81,000 per year seemed reasonable, but good for them if they can get more.

But, the extortion comes when the rabbit has the gun and says he wants more than a reasonable raise and wants you to turn back many years of technological advances that not only make cargo handling more efficient, but also make their jobs easier and safer to do.

And it's not like this Union has clean hands on the oppressor front. It wasn't that long ago (1970s) that the ILA had separate unions for black longshoremen and white longshoremen. And negotiated the contracts so that the black longshoremen got the more dangerous, lower paying, and sheettier jobs. So, sometimes the oppressed are the oppressor. I'm not sure that was true nation wide but it was certainly true in New Orleans.

Although to be fair, the ILA was relatively progressive when compared to other unions on that front. The vast majority of the rest of the unions wouldn't even let black people, or women of any color for that matter, join until maybe sometime in the 1970s. The only union a black man could join for many years was the laborers union (or the black longshoremens' union) which as you might guess got the least pay and the sheettiest jobs.

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

Okay. Corporations are evil. They only care about profit. That's a given. But that doesn't mean that every demand from every worker is reasonable. In this case, it appears that a 50% pay raise over 6 years which brings them above West Coast longshoremen who live in a place with a much higher cost of living than say New Orleans, along with increased pension benefits and health care are reasonable. Frankly, an average of $81,000 per year seemed reasonable, but good for them if they can get more.

But, the extortion comes when the rabbit has the gun and says he wants more than a reasonable raise and wants you to turn back many years of technological advances that not only make cargo handling more efficient, but also make their jobs easier and safer to do.

And it's not like this Union has clean hands on the oppressor front. It wasn't that long ago (1970s) that the ILA had separate unions for black longshoremen and white longshoremen. And negotiated the contracts so that the black longshoremen got the more dangerous, lower paying, and sheettier jobs. So, sometimes the oppressed are the oppressor. I'm not sure that was true nation wide but it was certainly true in New Orleans.

Although to be fair, the ILA was relatively progressive when compared to other unions on that front. The vast majority of the rest of the unions wouldn't even let black people, or women of any color for that matter, join until maybe sometime in the 1970s. The only union a black man could join for many years was the laborers union (or the black longshoremens' union) which as you might guess got the least pay and the sheettiest jobs.

What’s a reasonable wage? Reasonable to you maybe. They should advocate to get as much as they can/want/feel they are worth. As long as these CEO’s and shareholders and executives are making “unfair” wages in relation to the workers, I say play ball.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

What’s a reasonable wage? Reasonable to you maybe. They should advocate to get as much as they can/want/feel they are worth. As long as these CEO’s and shareholders and executives are making “unfair” wages in relation to the workers, I say play ball.

I generally agree - let the market sort itself out. Shoot for moon but that also means you can't complain when your hugely inflated salary demand leads to a robot taking your job the next go round or shippers funding more private terminals to get around the ILA. It also means you have to take your lumps if the strike leads to terrible consequences in other sectors.

I suspect the ILA is angling for a massive payday because its likely to be their last.

When everyone was clamoring for fulltime remote work post Covid, a CEO I know said be careful what you wish for - because now you (the worker) are not just competing against locals for your job you're competing against the entire planet. And there is likely someone in Bangalore that can do your job for a lot less.