Was Loomis Taken out of Context By His Remarks (Comparing DA to Coaching Greats) (1 Viewer)

[nakadish]

When he compared DA having similar starts in his first two seasons as a coach compared to Chuck Knoll, Bill Walsh, Belichick, and Tom Landry, I don't think he meant that Allen would have a similar rise.

It was more of saying what can happen when teams are patient with their HCs when they are first starting.

I have seen a lot of people on Saints Twitter, Saints FB Groups, podcasts, and even the local media that were not too pleased by what ML said.

Thoughts?

Nope. I think he absolutely believe that DA is going to be a HOF coach and do something Payton never did or ever will do, win multiple Lombardis. DA's reign of terror is coming.

You heard it here first.

 

[Igordão]

DA inherited a team in transition. DA was 9-8 this year not 4-13, putting the focus solely on the coach and not the dynamics in which the team is struggling is short sighted and I understand the frustration because he is the HC so he gets the blame but when he immediately starts transitioning and implementing the change we want to see how is HE still the problem?

I do not even think this is a DA thing anymore, I think ANY coach that would of taken over for Payton would be feeling this heat because we as fans are can be irrational at times.

The problem is 9-8 with the easiest schedule ever.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

When he compared DA having similar starts in his first two seasons as a coach compared to Chuck Knoll, Bill Walsh, Belichick, and Tom Landry, I don't think he meant that Allen would have a similar rise.

It was more of saying what can happen when teams are patient with their HCs when they are first starting.

I have seen a lot of people on Saints Twitter, Saints FB Groups, podcasts, and even the local media that were not too pleased by what ML said.

Thoughts?

He's free to compare DA's 5 year start to Landry, Noll, and Belichick. And we are free to laugh at the comparison, and note that he's pointing to some of the most extreme outliers (only one of which is even still alive) in order to justify his support for DA, and offer our own comparisons - like Raheem Morris, June Jones, and Bruce Coslet, all of whom have better records than DA.

It's not our fault Loomis brought out his 'notes' to throw those all time names out there. If he didn't want to compare DA to those guys he shouldn't have mentioned them and just said, "I think DA is a good coach and will have more success next year."

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I would also note that he tried to rewrite history when he suggested that Payton in 07-08 was facing the same calls for his head as DA is now. Gaslighting the fans is not going to get much support.

 

[Saintman2884]

DA inherited a team in transition. DA was 9-8 this year not 4-13, putting the focus solely on the coach and not the dynamics in which the team is struggling is short sighted and I understand the frustration because he is the HC so he gets the blame but when he immediately starts transitioning and implementing the change we want to see how is HE still the problem?

I do not even think this is a DA thing anymore, I think ANY coach that would of taken over for Payton would be feeling this heat because we as fans are can be irrational at times.

Not necessarily, George Seifert and Blanton Collier are two great, if not also, rare exceptions to the fact that once-great teams with legendary, Championship winning teams can't hire equally-as-good assistants who continue to run the ship successfully, if not supercede some of the same platitudes their predecessors did. Siefert won two Super Bowls after Walsh's retirement in 1988, lasted for almost 8 seasons, he also helped resurrect a crumbling, failing Panthers team in 1999 and brought them back to respectability. If it weren't for that disastrous 1-15 season in 2001, Siefert might be a HOFer right now but that stain will likely ruin his chances of entering Canton.

Collier inherited an outstanding team, roster from Paul Brown after a young Art Modell showcased his meddling ways and lead the Browns to their last NFL Championship ever (1964), the Browns remained a perennial playoff contender under Collier for over a decade until his retirement in the early 70's. He even has a NFL award named after him, IIRC, for best outstanding assistant coach given out on an annual basis.

 

[SweetT]

Nope. I think he absolutely believe that DA is going to be a HOF coach and do something Payton never did or ever will do, win multiple Lombardis. DA's reign of terror is coming.

You heard it here first.

I need some of what ML is smoking if that’s true. If he does believe that and doesn’t deliver any Lombardis, then that is his “I just need to cook the turkey” quote. He needs to be held accountable for his take in time.

 

[EGLSShin]

Here is where Loomis lost me.

Its is DA's 2nd stint as a head coach, you have a former raiders front office person(Amy Trask) saying things from back before he took the New Orleans job to 2 years later after he accepts the head gig which continues to track with his stint thus far. Dennis Allen took over a ready made team that had been apart of a winning program and wasn't asked to do much other than keeping what had already been built together via continuity. Those HoF guys took over absolutely dead franchises devoid of talent. DA has failed thus far by turning in 7-10 and 9-8 seasons where the past season, everything fell your way in terms of star players being injured when you played them. The team is undisciplined, at the top of the league in penalties. He regularly doesn't have his team ready to play, never starting games fast. Having drama play out in public, on the field, at locker room interviews and over twitter and now apparently it extended to lack of film study and parking in handicap spots.

 

[Corey504]

He probably was, but he walked right into that. Comparing anything to Brees and payton is just not something i'll entertain and i haven't paid much attention to whatever he said.

 

[Randy Jones]

Other then Belicheck, who had a frustrating, difficult run as Browns HC from 1991-95 but also had to contend with a meddling, egotistical, egocentric owner in Art Modell who was needlessly spending money he didnt really have and had to use his wife's banking account once to sign Andre Rison as a FA early in the 1995 season, the other HC's you mentioned had outstanding careers or tenures as coordinators elsewhere. Bill Walsh couldve gotten a HC gig a lot sooner then in 1979 if Bengals owner and HC Paul Brown hadn't secretly bashed him for years behind his back, telling other NFL teams' owners and GM's that he was emotionally, mentally unstable and could not handle the stress and responsibilities of being an NFL HC.

Belichek's lack of success or problems in Cleveland has to be viewed within the greater context of the FO disarray, ownership meddling and chaos. DA hasn't shown, except for this season, he can be a successful winning HC. He's a poor man's Haslett, except that maybe Allen was and is a better DC then Haslett ever was here, Pittsburgh, or in Washington D.C.

So you’re saying that Raiders front office was/is stable. That’s hard to believe.

 

[nakadish]

I need some of what ML is smoking if that’s true. If he does believe that and doesn’t deliver any Lombardis, then that is his “I just need to cook the turkey” quote. He needs to be held accountable for his take in time.

I'm joking, but I think he sees similarities in him and Payton, as he said, in the things a HC does that nobody outside the organization sees. And that none of the players gave up suggests that. I know that Payton went to the NFCCG his first year, but that was with one of the all-time great QBs in a year where 10-6 got them the #2 seed. They won one playoff game and lost one. Then fell back to earth where there were multiple threads of Fire Sean Payton.

So yeah, I have to trust Loomis on that one because I'm not inside the locker room, and I was one ready to move on from Payton at one point if I'm honest. And it's also telling that all of the player complaints were on the offensive side of the ball, which was address by firing the OC. Fix the offense and you'll see a much different Saints team than we've seen in a long time. The talent is there on the offensive side of the ball. All that's missing is O-line and a good OC. That's not hard to fix.

The players on defense have always played hard for DA. He just needs a strong OC that commands an offense and Pete wasn't that guy.

 

[S4lNTS]

I don’t believe his comments her taken out of context. Out of all the reasons or explanations he could have provided for keeping DA around another year, he brought up the name of several HOF coaches and their records as rationale for needing to give DA more time. It comes off as intellectually dishonest on multiple fronts — forgetting about DA’s time with the Raiders (didn’t win over 4 games each season and got fired), not taking into account the rosters of those coaches compared with ours and also the class difference between those coaches versus DA. He also tried to compare DA’s start to Sean Payton, like Sean didn’t lead us to the NFC Championship his first season as a head coach.

Overall, I think Loomis opened himself up to all of the criticism he’s getting from the press conference yesterday. He’s someone who I get the feeling really wants to prove he deserved more credit for the team’s success under Drew and Sean, but is feeling the pressure of trying to step outside of that shadow/previous success. This offseason and upcoming football season will be very telling for Loomis (and DA).

 

[BBarnes]

DA inherited a team in transition. DA was 9-8 this year not 4-13, putting the focus solely on the coach and not the dynamics in which the team is struggling is short sighted and I understand the frustration because he is the HC so he gets the blame (unfair blame at times) but when he immediately starts transitioning and implementing the change we want to see how is HE still the problem?

I do not even think this is a DA thing anymore, I think ANY coach that would of taken over for Payton would be feeling this heat because we as fans can be irrational at times.

I do agree, no one is going to be in a good position being the man following the man.

But any average HC would have won 12 games this season playing that cupcake schedule, with the exact same roster, coaching staff, and circumstances DA dealt with. Ok so you give him one more season, if he wins 9 games with that schedule next year then fine give him another year. He wins 6 or 7 games he has to go.

 

[No2DC]

Not necessarily, George Seifert and Blanton Collier are two great, if not also, rare exceptions to the fact that once-great teams with legendary, Championship winning teams can't hire equally-as-good assistants who continue to run the ship successfully, if not supercede some of the same platitudes their predecessors did. Siefert won two Super Bowls after Walsh's retirement in 1988, lasted for almost 8 seasons, he also helped resurrect a crumbling, failing Panthers team in 1999 and brought them back to respectability. If it weren't for that disastrous 1-15 season in 2001, Siefert might be a HOFer right now but that stain will likely ruin his chances of entering Canton.

Collier inherited an outstanding team, roster from Paul Brown after a young Art Modell showcased his meddling ways and lead the Browns to their last NFL Championship ever (1964), the Browns remained a perennial playoff contender under Collier for over a decade until his retirement in the early 70's. He even has a NFL award named after him, IIRC, for best outstanding assistant coach given out on an annual basis.

That's not a good sign when you have to dig into football archives to justify your support. He's comparing coaches from totally different eras. In today's game, it's unheard of for a losing coach to get past three years (if that). Just say we still support Dennis and stop gaslighting the fans.

 

[Saintman2884]

That's not a good sign when you have to dig into football archives to justify your support. He's comparing coaches from totally different eras. In today's game, it's unheard of for a losing coach to get past three years (if that). Just say we still support Dennis and stop gaslighting the fans.

I wasnt exactly giving Allen a huge amount of support. I was making an argument that historically, among the names Loomis listed as HC's who were terrible in their first tenures became great somewhere else, only Belichek succeeded in his second attempt and 85-90% of that unprecedented success was largely due to Tom Brady. Belicheck was a great DC for New York Giants in the 1980's while winning two Super Bowls but those werent his teams, they were Parcells squads.

Again, Allen, IMHO, is a poor man's Haslett, except that DA was and still is a better DC than Haslett ever could hope to be here in 1996 with Mora, in Pittsburgh from 1997-99, or in Washington under Mike Shanahan.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

We all know the gist of what Loomis was saying is “We think we have a good coach, we just need to be patient because greatness takes time to cultivate“

If you disagree you disagree. End story