What to expect moving forward (2 Viewers)

[REBELMAX]

He wasn't refusing to play. He was refusing to play hurt which compounded by the fact he didn't want to play for Dennis.

Yes. This

 

[Andrus]

Right. I'm trying to read between the lines about current leadership. If Loomis and Lauscha are in cahoots and Gayle is virtually a figurehead, that's worrisome. Loomis and Lauscha aren't going to fire themselves.

IMO, Dennis Lauscha is reasonable, highly intelligent, and manages the organization rather quietly in the background. He is someone that understands that ego can be a liability so you don't see that in him. He is also the actual boss of this organization. I have a lot of respect for Lauscha, and I am sure that he is well aware of most of what is going on within the organization. I am confident that if things go badly he will do what has to be done in order to right the ship, whatever that entails. I don't think that anyone is immune to being kicked to the curb other than Lauscha... that is, aside from Gayle, of course.

Speaking of which... Gayle didn't sign up for being criticized, doesn't deserve it, and isn't accustomed to it, so if things go south next season and too much mud starts being slung in her direction from the fan base it would be interesting to see what might come as a result. Hopefully the Saints are highly successful and that doesn't happen.

Thank you putting this info in front of everyone.

Well.. bear in mind that anything that I've posted within this thread are just things that I've been told, and I am not 100% that it's all accurate. or even that I remember it all verbatim, like the thing about Ireland may have been another person in the organization making the recommendation against drafting Penning, which is fuzzy in my memory because it was a couple years ago. I can say that I personally believe what I have been told to be true, for the most part, due to the sources track record, but don't take it to the bank. I mean, it's hearsay.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Some of this is fact and some is speculation. I will make a distinction below one from another.

Facts :
The Saints have always planned on keeping Dennis Allen as Head Coach and that is the plan today. Regardless of how we do in the last two games that’s the plan.

Did Ian Rappaport just randomly decide to tweet about DA’s fate ? No. Someone asked him to do that. It’s to start controlling the narrative. So that 100 “who’s the next head coach “ stories aren’t written by National media.

Carmichael will get replaced but it’s going to have to be someone inside the building or someone w a personal relationship. No rising star w options would want the Saints OC job.

Why would they keep DA ? Like I’ve said before - Why does a GM have a “coaches show” on WWL ? Why is there this push to get him in the HOF ? There is a contingent in that building that believed Sean got too much positive attention , that Sean got all the credit when in reality they believed they built a winning “program” and they created the culture of success. DA accepted the job before Sean resigned. They announced DA’s hiring the night Alvin Kamara was making news for being arrested in Vegas it was done and buried. Hiring DA gives these people complete control. Personnel , staff .. everything and I think they actually believed in what they were doing.

If they moved on from DA and hired someone -who will undoubtedly want control -and they wanted to change things … if that Head Coach had success it would look like the last 17 years and any success was about Sean and Drew.

Gayle … She made a nice deal. That’s it. They bring her out when they need it. She visits with people they want to charm or if there are cameras around.

Me speculating in a highly informed way :

I would expect guys like Mike T , Alvin K to get moved. This would be crazy but even someone like Lattimore to get traded. These guys aren’t bought in and see what’s happening so they could get moved and the narrative becomes this team had legacy problems in the locker room. DA needs his own guys to succeed. Guys that are bought in to him.

They probably go BPA with a lean to Left Tackle in the draft. That narrative is Carr is a top half veteran QB and we can contend and win the Division if we get him help.

I would say they would move on from Taysom as well but he’s a real fan favorite.



I would expect Jeff Ireland to be in Denver next year. The GM in waiting thing was a Sean play and he’s gone now. He won’t be back next year - I’d wager good money on that. That also gives them cover on the last two drafts. I’m surprised that people believe what they read literally. People thinking Ireland literally chose who we drafted are just naive.


Let’s see how this plays out now.

Glad this got bumped by the owner of the site, I’d missed it originally.
Very insightful thread and I thank you very much for the info.

 

[No2DC]

IMO, Dennis Lauscha is reasonable, highly intelligent, and manages the organization rather quietly in the background. He is someone that understands that ego can be a liability so you don't see that in him. He is also the actual boss of this organization. I have a lot of respect for Lauscha, and I am sure that he is well aware of most of what is going on within the organization. I am confident that if things go badly he will do what has to be done in order to right the ship, whatever that entails. I don't think that anyone is immune to being kicked to the curb other than Lauscha... that is, aside from Gayle, of course.

Speaking of which... Gayle didn't sign up for being criticized, doesn't deserve it, and isn't accustomed to it, so if things go south next season and too much mud starts being slung in her direction from the fan base it would be interesting to see what might come as a result. Hopefully the Saints are highly successful and that doesn't happen.



Well.. bear in mind that anything that I've posted within this thread are just things that I've been told, and I am not 100% that it's all accurate. or even that I remember it all verbatim, like the thing about Ireland may have been another person in the organization making the recommendation against drafting Penning, which is fuzzy in my memory because it was a couple years ago. I can say that I personally believe what I have been told to be true, for the most part, due to the sources track record, but don't take it to the bank. I mean, it's hearsay.

Something tells me your sources are better than most folks on here.

 

[tjharris]

 

[Snakehead]

Something tells me your sources are better than most folks on here.

Yeah, if it doesn't come from him or Rebel Max, I don't think I'll believe any of it.

 

[Nolan]

Been so disconnected that I missed this thread. Some eye opening stuff. Truly sad times for Saints fans.

One large uncontrollable ego on Airline drive just straight ruining this organization.

 

[SaintRob]

IMO, Dennis Lauscha is reasonable, highly intelligent, and manages the organization rather quietly in the background. He is someone that understands that ego can be a liability so you don't see that in him. He is also the actual boss of this organization. I have a lot of respect for Lauscha, and I am sure that he is well aware of most of what is going on within the organization. I am confident that if things go badly he will do what has to be done in order to right the ship, whatever that entails. I don't think that anyone is immune to being kicked to the curb other than Lauscha... that is, aside from Gayle, of course.

Speaking of which... Gayle didn't sign up for being criticized, doesn't deserve it, and isn't accustomed to it, so if things go south next season and too much mud starts being slung in her direction from the fan base it would be interesting to see what might come as a result. Hopefully the Saints are highly successful and that doesn't happen.

I want to agree with you about Lauscha, and that's what I want to think about him. He does seem like a humble guy, with a calm demeanor and a long term, non knee-jerk reaction, vision for the future. I know that Tom Benson, trusted him explicitly. When I say that I'm trying to read between the lines, there are things said along the lines of, "there's a contingent that thinks that Payton and Brees received too much credit". That implies that it's more than just Loomis that thinks this. And there's speculation about a power struggle after Tom died that caused Payton to think he was either being squeezed out or having less input on the direction of the team, which was part of the reason that he wanted to move on. Then there's the thoughts of the current leadership removing players who may have Payton loyalty and not buying into Dennisball. If Gayle is not especially active in running the teams, according to things that have been said, then that leaves people at the top of the organizaton. I don't think that is really a criticism of her. I hope that she is enjoying her life. It's speculation that makes it seem like she's good with leaving the guys that Tom trusted to make decisions and run the sports franchises.

Lauscha is the top guy. If he has Loomis's ear, then that seems like the "contingent" might include him (absolutely speculation on my part). If you look at the other top people, who would have the power to have the influence of trying to recreate a culture that is similar to Payton and Brees to prove that it wasn't Payton and Brees who created winning culture, that it was the "front office" and a GM who is "HOF worthy"? Who else would have that kind of influence? It's not Jeff Ireland because it looks like he might be the next one to be squeezed out. Who does that leave? Harley? Bensel? Stanfield? Ben Hales? Do any of them actually have the power to change culture?

I haven't seen anything that implies differently about Lauscha, so like I said, that is pure speculation and process of elimination on my part. I hope that you're right and that he sees what is happening and will make extremely tough adjustments if that time comes.

 

[StudioSaint]

IMO, Dennis Lauscha is reasonable, highly intelligent, and manages the organization rather quietly in the background. He is someone that understands that ego can be a liability so you don't see that in him. He is also the actual boss of this organization. I have a lot of respect for Lauscha, and I am sure that he is well aware of most of what is going on within the organization. I am confident that if things go badly he will do what has to be done in order to right the ship, whatever that entails. I don't think that anyone is immune to being kicked to the curb other than Lauscha... that is, aside from Gayle, of course.

Speaking of which... Gayle didn't sign up for being criticized, doesn't deserve it, and isn't accustomed to it, so if things go south next season and too much mud starts being slung in her direction from the fan base it would be interesting to see what might come as a result. Hopefully the Saints are highly successful and that doesn't happen.



Well.. bear in mind that anything that I've posted within this thread are just things that I've been told, and I am not 100% that it's all accurate. or even that I remember it all verbatim, like the thing about Ireland may have been another person in the organization making the recommendation against drafting Penning, which is fuzzy in my memory because it was a couple years ago. I can say that I personally believe what I have been told to be true, for the most part, due to the sources track record, but don't take it to the bank. I mean, it's hearsay.

Based on this assessment of Lauscha, I choose to believe that the Saints will address in good faith whatever they honestly believe needs to be addressed.

Since I'm not in any of the meetings and I have zero influence on the decisions they make, I'm not going to stress over whether or not they are doing the right or wrong things.

I'll tune in to the draft to see who they draft, into the preseason to see how things are looking and into all the games to see how many they actually win and lose. The Serenity Prayer approach makes being a Saints fan a lot easier and more enjoyable for me.

 

[kanona29]

Dennis Allen has a reputation for being a weasel and he hasn’t done anything to help himself since he was hired.

But like I said - his job was never in jeopardy. DA has leaked to national media that he was safe and has been doing that all year.

Loomis isn’t about to fire DA who he completely controls and hire some guy to tell him how they do things in Detroit or wherever.

There isn’t really an owner to hold anyone accountable. It just is what it is.

I can't believe I originally missed this thread.

Very enlightening and pretty much tracks on things we've been hearing lately and how things have been panning out so far.

It just concerns me that the guy at the very top, Lauscha, went along with Loomis' vision ... and I'm hoping he has enough discernment to see if and when this vision is not working out for the team.

It's interesting that DA has a reputation for being a "weasel" because that's just how he's coming across to many within the fanbase.

 

[SaintRob]

Some of this is fact and some is speculation. I will make a distinction below one from another.

Facts :
The Saints have always planned on keeping Dennis Allen as Head Coach and that is the plan today. Regardless of how we do in the last two games that’s the plan.

Did Ian Rappaport just randomly decide to tweet about DA’s fate ? No. Someone asked him to do that. It’s to start controlling the narrative. So that 100 “who’s the next head coach “ stories aren’t written by National media.

Carmichael will get replaced but it’s going to have to be someone inside the building or someone w a personal relationship. No rising star w options would want the Saints OC job.

Why would they keep DA ? Like I’ve said before - Why does a GM have a “coaches show” on WWL ? Why is there this push to get him in the HOF ? There is a contingent in that building that believed Sean got too much positive attention , that Sean got all the credit when in reality they believed they built a winning “program” and they created the culture of success. DA accepted the job before Sean resigned. They announced DA’s hiring the night Alvin Kamara was making news for being arrested in Vegas it was done and buried. Hiring DA gives these people complete control. Personnel , staff .. everything and I think they actually believed in what they were doing.

If they moved on from DA and hired someone -who will undoubtedly want control -and they wanted to change things … if that Head Coach had success it would look like the last 17 years and any success was about Sean and Drew.

Gayle … She made a nice deal. That’s it. They bring her out when they need it. She visits with people they want to charm or if there are cameras around.

Me speculating in a highly informed way :

I would expect guys like Mike T , Alvin K to get moved. This would be crazy but even someone like Lattimore to get traded. These guys aren’t bought in and see what’s happening so they could get moved and the narrative becomes this team had legacy problems in the locker room. DA needs his own guys to succeed. Guys that are bought in to him.

They probably go BPA with a lean to Left Tackle in the draft. That narrative is Carr is a top half veteran QB and we can contend and win the Division if we get him help.

I would say they would move on from Taysom as well but he’s a real fan favorite.



I would expect Jeff Ireland to be in Denver next year. The GM in waiting thing was a Sean play and he’s gone now. He won’t be back next year - I’d wager good money on that. That also gives them cover on the last two drafts. I’m surprised that people believe what they read literally. People thinking Ireland literally chose who we drafted are just naive.


Let’s see how this plays out now.

Correct on Carmichael. Still hoping your speculation about Loomis on the other thread comes to fruition...

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Only those inside the building know what responsibility the personnel people deserve for some really bad draft picks in recent years. The personnel people presumably are evaluating and ranking players based on the physical traits desired by the coaches--for example, the Saints' preference for size over speed at defensive end. The idea is that they are evaluating players based on what the Saints do, not in some generic way like those in the media.

But the general manager (a) picked the top personnel people; (b) presided over the process used to rank and select players; (c) promoted a drafting philosophy built on targeting players in the draft to an unusual degree under the premise that the team could identify good prospects with an abnormally high level of confidence; and (d) had the ultimate responsibility for the picks made, especially in the higher rounds.

A problem in recent years is that the team has clearly been drafting for need in the early picks. In the past, the Saints tried to address needs in free agency so that they could have some freedom of action in the draft. But the consequence of our salary-cap abuses is that we can't keep some players we would like to keep and we can't sign some free agents we would like to sign. And if a team is drafting players based on need, then it often "forces" the picks it makes, and it needs those players to produce now, not later. We drafted Trevor Penning as a tackle. One can speculate we were eager to pick Penning because we needed badly a tackle. But in two years, he has done nothing but show that he lacks the physical traits to play tackle.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Regarding Sean Payton feeling that he was not wanted in New Orleans, that was never my impression. I always thought that Loomis and Payton were personal friends, and that the organization did its best to convince Payton to stay after the 2021 season. And I simply find it incredible that anyone would think that Dennis Allen and Sean Payton were on the same level and might actually favor the former as the team's head coach. However, I readily concede I am just speculating and have no idea what has been taking place inside the Saints organization.

I also have no idea who might have made up a "contingent" who believed Payton received too much credit and they were responsible for a successful culture, especially if Jeff Ireland was not one of them. If true--and I have no idea--this organization is truly a dysfunctional mess.

 

[Hedon James]

Regarding Sean Payton feeling that he was not wanted in New Orleans, that was never my impression. I always thought that Loomis and Payton were personal friends, and that the organization did its best to convince Payton to stay after the 2021 season. And I simply find it incredible that anyone would think that Dennis Allen and Sean Payton were on the same level and might actually favor the former as the team's head coach. However, I readily concede I am just speculating and have no idea what has been taking place inside the Saints organization.

I also have no idea who might have made up a "contingent" who believed Payton received too much credit and they were responsible for a successful culture, especially if Jeff Ireland was not one of them. If true--and I have no idea--this organization is truly a dysfunctional mess.

Same here....I'm right there with you. Saints org has historically been notoriously leak-proof....so when information DOES leak, you question whether it's "real" information or whether the organization leaked it to control the narrative. OTOH....I've always said to ignore what people SAY and pay attention to what they DO. Words are lies, but actions are always the truth. So all we've got left is empirical evidence to consider....the ACTIONS of the Saints org.

We all look at the DA regime and see the handwriting on the wall, and KNOW how this ends....we've seen it with every HC the Saints have ever had, except CSP who left on his own terms. Even Jim Mora, the 2nd most successful HC in Saints history, eventually got swamped by the familiar ending. Unless something DRASTIC and UNFORSEEN happens, it's coming....and we all see it. So I ask myself why the organization doesn't see it? Why are they doubling down on an obvious mis-judgement, and failing to correct for what NEEDS to be done to get back to elite status? They can't possibly believe that "more of the same" will somehow yield a different result, can they? And yet here we are.

The actions haven't been fully revealed yet, so all I have to go on are past actions. PC was a very successful OC under CSP for 16 seasons....now that CSP is gone, he is suddenly incompetent? I'll buy the argument that he was an extension of CSP.....but it then extrapolates that he became an extension of DA and called the offensive philosophy that DA preferred. DA hired PC to be the OC, because offense wasn't DA's expertise (a reasonable strategy), but then seems to have handcuffed PC with an offensive mandate that contradicted PC's experience and expertise under CSP. PC seems to have been the sacrificial lamb for doing what DA instructed him to do. And yet, DA is "safe".

One of our best offensive players, AK41, has been vocal about offensive & team issues the entire season. That doesn't indicate a problem with "learning to gel", but seems to indicate something larger. Now we're hearing (perhaps truthful, perhaps not?) there was a contingent of malcontents in the locker room who are disgruntled with the "team processes" that are NOT leading to victories. They are being labled as "CSP loyalists" like it's a bad thing; when, in fact, these are CORE players on the team who are USED TO winning, and know what winning looks like....and THIS ain't it. These CORE players and team leaders are attempting to address the issue, but they don't run the team and there's only so much that a subservient player can do against his coach. DA was hired to maintain "continuity of culture", and these players are telling us that culture is NOT being maintained. We are now hearing (perhaps truthful, perhaps not?) that some of these players may be traded in order to restore locker room harmony? WTH? Why are these players being labled as "malcontents", instead of listening to their feedback?! Since when do you rid your roster of some of your arguably "best players" in order to "create buy-in" to the HC with a career losing record, AND a franchise losing record? Since when are these players' Saints careers in jeopardy, but DA is "safe"?

I see that DA as HC is a problem....and my take isn't unique. But it's becoming apparent that DA isn't the REAL problem....he's just a symptom of that problem. The REAL problem, is a GM who doubles down on his HC selection to "maintain continuity of culture", and yet states that he believes that culture has "slipped some" and that "maybe things are too comfortable" and wants to make things uncomfortable again. If that isn't an admission of a failed hire, I don't know what one is?! DA hasn't "maintained culture" and I'm not sure he even knows what to do to address that; and if he has an idea, I'm not sure he has the decisiveness to take action until he is forced to take action. So the GM solution is to float the idea of trading "CSP loyalists", labeled as "malcontents who aren't buying into the DA program".....some of our team leaders and historically best players....so that DA is "unopposed" in the locker room. RUFKM? These actions indicate to me that the GM is part of the problem, if not the REAL problem.

At this point, failure to correct the HC situation and the threat of trading core players/team leaders to protect the failed HC is just "throwing good money after bad". A good GM should know when to stay the course, and when to cut your losses. It seems our GM is demonstrating that CSP was indeed the straw that stirred the drink in NO. And I'll be the first to acknowledge that maybe it was the synergy of the TEAM of Saints officials. But if the GM can't sustain that success when 1 guy leaves, then the GM is the problem; bring back the 1 guy (not necessarily the exact SAME guy, but a similar guy who performs a similar role). It's become obvious to me that BOTH the GM and HC need to go. I'm still watching to determine if the problem extends above the GM....and if so, how far?

Will Lauscha take action to "fix" the franchise? Or will he allow it to continue? If the latter....he needs to go to. If he is "safe", I guess we're looking at ownership? If that's the case, we have a REAL problem. By all accounts, Mrs. Benson is a figurehead owner, with a real laissez-faire approach. Which isn't necessarily a problem if you have "football people" running the show for you. I don't know much about Mrs. Benson, but I'm pretty sure she doesn't have the "business background" that Tom Benson had; and I'm willing to bet she has even less knowledge about sports in general, and football in particular. This isn't a "woman observation", but a "time observation". Even with his formidable "business background", it took Tom Benson MANY years to get "good" at the ownership thing. He was smart to hire Jim Finks to run things on his behalf, and stay in the background for money/business decisions. When Finks passed, the franchise deteriorated quickly in the hands of Kuharich, until Benson had to step in again and replace Kuharich with Mueller, and then replace Mueller with Loomis. I think Mr. Benson made a slightly better choice each time he selected a new GM. No reason Mrs. Benson can't do the same....I only question how much time she has to "get good at picking football people" to run her franchise. Hopefully, it doesn't run that high. For now, replace the GM who is repeatedly doubling down on questionable personnel decisions, busting the cap on a regular basis, and incessantly trading away draft assets that could potentially fix 2 of the 3 problems; and I think the replacement of the HC will follow. If that doesn't happen reasonably soon, I fear the "franchise rot" runs even higher up. JMO...

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

And therein lies the problem: The organization promoted an assistant coach to head coach for the stated purpose of continuing the organization's winning culture. After not experiencing success, the organization two years later says a problem is that the culture has been disrupted, largely by players who were closely identified with that winning culture.

And Gayle Benson faces issues with both her sports teams. The Pelicans overall are experiencing more success than the Saints, but there seems a ceiling to how far they can go, and increasingly there will be calls for some major changes, perhaps the trade of a star player, and eventually the criticism of Willie Green will grow louder.