Whose side are you on? [assignment edition - mod edit] (1 Viewer)

[SystemShock]

Which, again, is why I side with the student from a technical perspective and the teacher from a moral perspective.

What morality is there in not honoring your own rules?

 

[SWJJ]

This is a weird hill to die on but whatevers.

 

[Hoodoo]

Shouldn't it be the teacher the one taking the high road and admitting that what the student delivered was to a tee within the parameters the teacher themselves set forth at the beginning of the school period?

Did the student stoop below the teacher's level, or did the student demand that the teacher honor the very rules the teacher set forth to begin with?

I think it's a bit of both. We're also missing a lot of context as well. Did the student explain to the teacher why he was asking what the policy was or was he more vague about why he was asking. What was the tone of the email? Was it like the post where he states the project was "long and annoying" and pretty much said he's got better things to do. That seems rather insulting and egotistical to insinuate the teacher's work is not worth his time. There's a lot we don't really know here and we're only hearing it from one perspective. Ultimately though, the school has to follow the letter of the policy and so they did.

 

[Hoodoo]

If this is an attempt at an analogy it's one of the worst I've seen.....this is a teacher student relationship not a long term business relationship....why would you introduce a non existent scenario?


In contracts, legalities, and in this case a lesson/grading plan why would you assume morality applies to any of it?

I've repeated why multiple times in this thread. I'm not going to just keep explaining the same thing over and over.

 

[efil4stnias]

I think it's a bit of both. We're also missing a lot of context as well. Did the student explain to the teacher why he was asking what the policy was or was he more vague about why he was asking. What was the tone of the email? Was it like the post where he states the project was "long and annoying" and pretty much said he's got better things to do. That seems rather insulting and egotistical to insinuate the teacher's work is not worth his time. There's a lot we don't really know here and we're only hearing it from one perspective. Ultimately though, the school has to follow the letter of the policy and so they did.

Who cares? its simple facts- grading scale put forth. Based on the teachers parameters, student exposed a fallacy and was rightfully found to be within those parameters.

Take all that other junk out. It doesnt matter. None of it. Intent doesnt matter for the 100th time. Understanding intent doesnt matter for the 100th time.

 

[efil4stnias]

I've repeated why multiple times in this thread. I'm not going to just keep explaining the same thing over and over.

We are. so should you lol.

 

[Hoodoo]

Who cares? its simple facts- grading scale put forth. Based on the teachers parameters, student exposed a fallacy and was rightfully found to be within those parameters.

Take all that other junk out. It doesnt matter. None of it. Intent doesnt matter for the 100th time. Understanding intent doesnt matter for the 100th time.

I never said that it matters from a grading standpoint. The student exposed a flaw and exploited it. Case closed. My only question is whether or not it was the right thing to do.

 

[Hoodoo]

What morality is there in not honoring your own rules?

Good point and why I said the teacher should have told him it wasn't needed in the first place.

 

[efil4stnias]

I never said that it matters from a grading standpoint. The student exposed a flaw and exploited it. Case closed. My only question is whether or not it was the right thing to do.

thats all that matters. The question was does he get a grade or not for this essay...full stop.

nothing.
else.
matters.

 

[Hoodoo]

thats all that matters. The question was does he get a grade or not for this essay...full stop.

nothing.
else.
matters.

Just in the context of this class, I agree, nothing else matters. But I'm not talking about just in the context of this class. I'm talking about his attitude towards the situation and how that attitude will serve him in the future.

And the question wasn't does he get the grade. It was who do you side with. Those are separate questions that have differing, more nuanced answers. My answer to " does he get the grade" is absolutely he does

 

[efil4stnias]

Just in the context of this class, I agree, nothing else matters. But I'm not talking about just in the context of this class. I'm talking about his attitude towards the situation and how that attitude will serve him in the future.

And the question wasn't does he get the grade. It was who do you side with. Those are separate questions that have differing, more nuanced answers. My answer to " does he get the grade" is absolutely he does

if he becomes an attorney, it will serve him quite well.

words matter.

 

[DaveXA]

It seems obvious to me that the teacher screwed this up and not the student. What the teacher should have done is simply say the student didn't need to submit anything since the last assignment was pointless.

The student went through all of the proper steps to ensure he didn't do what he didn't need to do. The teacher should say something like if you score an A average on 4 exams, the 5th is optional. If you don't have an A average, the 5th becomes mandatory.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with what the student did. I probably would have done the same thing.

 

[Hoodoo]

if he becomes an attorney, it will serve him quite well.

words matter.

I completely agree, except when he thinks a case is too long and annoying and he can't be bothered with it.

 

[DaveXA]

Just in the context of this class, I agree, nothing else matters. But I'm not talking about just in the context of this class. I'm talking about his attitude towards the situation and how that attitude will serve him in the future.

And the question wasn't does he get the grade. It was who do you side with. Those are separate questions that have differing, more nuanced answers. My answer to " does he get the grade" is absolutely he does

This "attitude" you're talking about is really a poor assumption. If anything, he's being efficient with his time, which is something that would actually help him down the road. What he did here was actually seek clarification of expectations, then acted accordingly. That's a good trait.

I never once had a teacher get on my case about skipping a homework assignment if it was optional. No hard feelings and it never caused any issue with work for me in my 30 years in the workforce.

 

[DaveXA]

I completely agree, except when he thinks a case is too long and annoying and he can't be bothered with it.

One has nothing to do with the other. One pays the bills, the other doesn't. One was optional, the other isn't.