Why do some men behave badly? (3 Viewers)

[guidomerkinsrules]

The issue that I have is that nothing in what you just said is verifiable fact. You have no idea if women abuse positions of authority in significantly lesser rates than men. You are also throwing in a caveat that those that do are expressing 'masculine' traits which is absolutely meaningless. It's unproveable rhetoric to support a conclusion that you are convinced of.
It's also reinforcing that abuse of power in "this" manner is somehow not as bad as abusing it in "that" manner which also becomes a justification.

I'm not writing a paper - if you want to disprove what I said disprove what I said
by trying to handwave it as rhetoric you commit the same sin you judge me for

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Why isn't this thread considered sexist?

Is it normal to bash men, and taboo to say, anything negative towards woman?

Just checking. Need clarification.

#notallmen is about as useful as #alllivesmatter

and if this information is unimportant:

In the years since, the club’s mission has expanded, amid an onslaught of alarming statistics about the state of U.S. boys and young men. Yes, it’s still very much a white, straight man’s world, but these days, boys are less likely than girls to go to college, more prone to suicide and more likely to drop out of high school.


Studies show they have fewer friends, higher rates of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder diagnoses and are prime targets for both the torrent of violent language in gaming chats and the array of misogynistic, protein powder-hawking hucksters who fill young men’s social feeds with reactionary politics.

then whataboutism is a fine tact

 

[Dago]

I'm not writing a paper - if you want to disprove what I said disprove what I said
by trying to handwave it as rhetoric you commit the same sin you judge me for

The difference is i am not making passing off opinion as fact. If the subject is ambiguous and nebulous, as you claim, then nothing about it should be presented in a manner of certainty or fact.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

The difference is i am not making passing off opinion as fact. If the subject is ambiguous and nebulous, as you claim, then nothing about it should be presented in a manner of certainty or fact.

is post #8 the type of facts you're looking for?

 

[Det. Brees]

Why is this article acting like there aren't plenty of women in positions of power/authority who abuse there underlings or treat people badly?
I agree with plenty in that article but the cherry picked examples are ridiculous and ignore that women express their butt crevasse gene in different ways from men.
It isn't hard to do a little research and find plenty of examples of female politicians and entertainers using their status/positions in immoral or unscrupulous ways. Women, and i say this as a complement, are more subtle than men.
Research also shows that men are far less likely to report things like domestic or sexual abuse.
Women are newer to the power game and there are less of them in these positions...that coupled with men being likely to not report incidents means that cherry picked examples or gross numbers are useless

Look at all the incidents of female teachers sexually abusing students. Those same gender dynamics cause less societal outrage and women's sentences are on average almost 50% less than men.

i was thinking the same thing

 

[Dago]

is post #8 the type of facts you're looking for?

Actually yes. Let's look at my assertions in that post
1) There are plenty of women in positions of power or authority who have acted immorally or unscrupulously. This statement was made due to the OP cherry picking 3 examples to show that women don't engage in such behavior
2) Women are more subtle than men. Feel free to Google that...I did before posting it
3) Men are far less likely to report assault or sexual abuse done by women. Again, feel free to look it up. I did before posting it
4) Women are newer to the power game then men. Duh.
5) Sexual abuse on children from women is not treated as seriously as when men do it. Once again, look it up.

And the conclusion i am making from these verifiable facts is that there are plenty of variables that are being ignored which does not lend itself to being able to make definitive statements. That's how opinions are supposed to work...you list facts, eliminate variables, and form your opinion.

My opinion is that I am not saying that this is WRONG. I am saying that once again people can't tell the difference between correlation and causation and that there isn't enough in this thread to make the conclusions that some are making

Now if it can be shown that I am wrong in my facts or that my conclusion isn't based on logic, I am all ears

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Why is this article acting like there aren't plenty of women in positions of power/authority who abuse there underlings or treat people badly?
I agree with plenty in that article but the cherry picked examples are ridiculous and ignore (assumption) that women express their butt crevasse gene in different ways from men.
It isn't hard to do a little research and find plenty (depending on source 'plenty' could be anywhere from more that 0% to anything less than the average of the population) of examples of female politicians and entertainers using their status/positions in immoral or unscrupulous (value judgements) ways. Women, and i say this as a complement, are more subtle (overly vague) than men.
Research also shows that men are far less likely to report things like domestic or sexual abuse (non sequitor).
Women are newer to the power game and there are less (fewer - of them in these positions...that coupled with men being likely to not report incidents means that (not a fact - it could indicate it but it does not have to mean that) cherry picked examples or gross numbers are useless

Look at all (without more context also a non-sequitor ) the incidents of female teachers sexually abusing students. Those same gender dynamics cause less societal outrage and women's sentences are on average almost 50% less than men. (if true this is actually a relevant fact - so there's one)

mostly tongue and cheek but since you were attacking my narrative rhetoric bc it wasn't a multi-pronged research paper - this is what happens

 

[sfidc3]

weirdly I 'just' had this interaction with my wife - our oldest had overslept (by 45 minutes) a voice lesson this morning. I'd been reaching out about an hour before his lesson. My wife cancelled the lesson
when he finally wakes up, he calls her upset even though she's in Denver at a conference
she calls me up sad bc she's internalizing his anger (obviously he's projecting his frustration with himself and his not being responsible)
he doesn't call me even though i'm the one who'd'll be taking him bc he knows i won't let him target his anger at ma and will remind him of all the chances he had to get it right

and he's mostly a good kid - just a 16 yr old boy only just learning to develop his social skills (and his mother and I probably did not hold him to account as much as we could have)

I hear you, my oldest is a bizarre mix of genuinely gentle (he is very, very good with kids and kids with disabilities, as he grew up with one next door), and at times (not all times) toxically masculine, his views on women are not ones I generally share and he has at least a few friends I would describe as worse....men (much like women) are complicated....

98.3%

Haha, my favorite radio station (the Penguin 98.3) out of Wilmington NC....you can download their app and stream it, if you like blues/gospel/bluegrass/rock mix type stuff.....

For those bringing women into the conversation, I don't disagree that power corrupts regardless of the sex and some do indeed behave badly but would suggest starting another thread about women

 

[SystemShock]

a white, straight man’s world,

You found the problem?
BTW, you don't need to write a paper to defend your position.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

because if you talk about it too much the "your woke" crowd will come in and cry foul.

 

[SystemShock]

I find it funny that such behavioral studies (and studies, well, let's just say they are definitely not all conducted equal) usually completely ignore that social behaviors among homo sapiens have been forged in our psyches and genes for anywhere between 120,000 to 200,000 years, 300,000+ if you count Neanderthals, vis a vis some of what we call today "bad behavior" or "toxic masculinity" being what was expected of men to be seen as men just 50-100 years ago.

Now let's cherry pick too.

Leann Tweeden accused Al Franken of sexual harassment, and later was found to have been grabbing arses and balls during the tour in which Franken allegedly harassed her.

Imelda Marcos abused her position as First Lady of the Philippines to steal billions and ordering various human rights violations. It is said it was her manipulative nature that got her husband elected.

Ilona Staller, who rode her porn stardom to a seat in the Italian Parliament. No pasties, but dressed provocatively in Parliament (i.e., tits hanging out), and once even offered sex to Saddam Hussein in exchange for peace in the region.

... which brings me to the one power that women have wielded throughout those 120-200 thousands years of homo sapiens, sex, a power that has launched thousands of ships throughout history.

So, power imbalances between the members of the species? Of course, I am not saying it doesn't exist... again, you can't ignore millennia of human behavior. But it isn't as lop sided anymore as this article makes it out to be; maybe it is so when you consider some aspects of the imbalance, but not others.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Perspective on the socialization idea

 

[Icon]

Perspective on the socialization idea

With the exception of maybe Uncle Phil, do you recall how most leading men in sitcoms were portrayed in the 90s and early 2000s?

Many of them weren't far off from being Homer Simpson or Peter Griffin

 

[0rion]

I feel like my kids go against alot of this. My oldest son has always been a quiet well behaved kid. He never liked getting in trouble as a kid so he didn't. His teachers loved him and we routinely got the "your son is so well behaved" remarks. End result....he was bullied mercilessly all through school. As a parent that's a helpless feeling watching your well meaning son suffer through school. He's 21 now and he made it through it but still has scars from those years and he's very guarded with people.

My daughter is a very dominant personality. She's the first to step forward in most situations and doesn't take lip from anyone quietly. She also has zero problems speaking up for others. She's 18 now and is currently going through a battle with her roommates at the dorm. As parents we never need to step in for her ....she will handle it .

I'm sure as parents we're the reason they're like this as we're ultimately responsible for how they acted as children but at the same time I feel like they were just built like that.

 

[sinner mike]

This is a good subject supported by research, not opinion. It is also a difficult subject, difficult to look at self. This is an oversimplification but I was that man the thread is talking about, not power but behavior. I thought men were superior. Then I joined CrossFit (20+ years ago) and 80 pound women were crushing my best output. That was humbling. I did not resent, I respected their ability, it helped me to shift my view. Then I went to grad school, that was humbling (imposter syndrome) but looking at self and people reflecting some not so nice aspects of myself. Thankfully I was in therapy at the time to help me parse out what was real and what was in my mind. Very difficult process but worth it.

Now in my experience as a psychologist men are more likely to quit when confronted with their role in a problem. That is the data from one clinician obviously not generalizable.

It is important to dig into these subjects. The problem is when people are presented with the findings, what do they do? Reflect on self or reject out of hand?