Saints Why give up… why? (2 Viewers)

[Elvis]

That’s what many said about the ‘87 Vikings. They supposedly “backed into the playoffs” with an 8-7 record in that strike-shortened season.

So what happened? Vikings went on the road to play the teams with the best record in the NFL (….not just in the NFC) in the postseason in ‘87:

* beat the 12-3 Saints 44-10, then

* beat the 13-2 49’ers 36-27

Not only that, but they also played at Washington in the NFCCG, and narrowly lost to the ultimate SB winner 10-17.

Jerry Burns (Vikings HC) was short and feisty like Rizzo. Not that it amounts to much, but stranger things have happened.



WhoDat

If your example for hope this season is a team that didn't make the Super Bowl, 37 years ago, in a rare season that was shortened by a labor dispute then you are reallllllly grasping at straws.

 

[los226]

I think this all depends on your personality type. Are you basing your decision on emotion or logic?

My emotions don’t want the season to be over until it’s over, but logically the season has been over since DA was still coach.

 

[St.Dan]

Jim Mora might not have been the best on-field play caller and decision maker -- qualities we saw in spades when Payton was young and hungry for a ring -- but that ex-Marine didn't ever let his teams quit.

1990 was the first year of the third wild card team making the playoffs in each conference. It had been just two since the league went to a 16-team schedule in 1978. And so those early third-team wild card selections carried records similar to the Saints that year. The Dome Patrol defense absolutely carried the offense into the playoffs that year. Haener and Rattler's arms are like John Elway's compared to Steve Walsh's, as older fans should remember. It can be said Rickey Jackson saved the playoff run, as he caused the fumble by Roger Craig one week earlier in San Francisco that preserved a 13-10 win against a Niners team that was resting Joe Montana for the playoffs.

We saw evidence of Mora's influence a year earlier when a mathematically-eliminated Saints team that finished 9-7 defeated the Eagles on Monday Night Football and cost the Buddy Ryan/Randall Cunningham Eagles a division title in the process. Both that one and the New Year's Eve win over the Rams a year later (and both were on MNF) are worth a rewatch on YouTube to get a sense of true grit in the face of already having been eliminated from the playoffs.

 

[ndcc]

More video from the 1990 playoff clinch (coverage on WWL).

 

[HoustonSaint68]

The 2002 Saints were sitting pretty with a 9-4 record, needing only one (1) more win in their last 3 games (all vs. teams with a losing record)to CLINCH a postseason spot. Welp… Jim Haslett continues to start an injured Aaron Brooks instead of playing a HEALTHY Jake Delhomme. Results: Three (3) straight losses to finish at 9-7, and missed the postseason! My hide is still chapped about that season!

Bad times. That was the last time I booed the Saints - the finale against the Panthers (I think) and it was before the game when they announced that Brooks was starting. I really liked Brooks - but it was obvious that he was hurt and wasn’t capable of playing well.

That said, I did scream at Payton like a maniac at the very end of the 2014 home finale against the Falcons when they returned a fumble for a TD and everyone just quit on the return. It’s slightly possible that he heard me because the Dome was pretty much empty at the end of that curb stomp.

 

[Saint KayBee]

Really?
Can't a poster just enjoy the banter, regardless of opinions? Especially if the poster lives outside the Saints' market?

Pretty bold line to draw between “enjoying the banter” and “actively seeking to drag as much of the board as possible into your own malaise”

Me personally, I don’t find draft speculation very enjoyable to participate in… but I don’t go to draft speculation threads and tell people how useless I find the process to be. I don’t go in and despair about how who the team drafts won’t matter because [insert reason here]. I leave that talk to the people who enjoy it and read it after the draft ends to learn some stuff about the new guys to cheer for.

Going around and poisoning the board with “whyyyyyyyy won’t the team loseeeeeeeeeeee moreeeeeee” is… a bit much, yeah?

 

[porculator]

It will probably be a moot point after this week. For all of the ups and downs of the year, the results are still pretty consistent. We lose to the good teams and beat the bad ones (exception for losing to the Panthers)

Washington is a a solid playoff team. Recent history says we don't have a chance, but if somehow we beat them with a backup QB, then sure maybe we deserve a shot at the playoffs.

 

[3ParStillDriver]

A lot to consider.

Trend :

• Under Dennis Allen the teams capability trended down.
• Dennis Allen was fired, Rizzi named interim head coach, teams capability pointed up
• Team won first two games : teams capability pointed up
• Team loss to the Rams, barely beat the Giants : teams capability capped, came back down and leveled off.

Currently we are good enough to compete with good teams. We're also bad enough to barely beat bad teams.

Given our record, and immense probability of not making the playoffs even if we win out, you have two options

1. Continue playing as if you're in the playoffs, trying squeeze out every little bit of success you can
2. Try to determine the future and get answers to many questions.
   1. What is Haener capable of?
   2. What is Rattler capable of?
   3. Is Miller a reliable second RB?
   4. Is our future head coach already head coaching, or is there another?

You simply can't do both. You have to pick one or the other. If Fuaga gets an injury, needs surgery but can play the remaining games by delaying surgery, but puts risk of him making training camp on time next year. You don't forego the surgery. You do it now to look ahead. It's important we get answers so the new coach coming in has tape and knows what he has to work with.

That's not giving up. That's planning for the future which is anything BUT giving up.

 

[Paul]

It will probably be a moot point after this week. For all of the ups and downs of the year, the results are still pretty consistent. We lose to the good teams and beat the bad ones (exception for losing to the Panthers)

Washington is a a solid playoff team. Recent history says we don't have a chance, but if somehow we beat them with a backup QB, then sure maybe we deserve a shot at the playoffs.

Sound logic and great post.

I’m currently inclined to just throw the towel in on this season and actively root against the Bucs and Falcons, and then whoever represents the NFC in the Super Bowl, unless is Detroit. I hope we have a much better season next year.

 

[SystemShock]

Pretty bold line to draw between “enjoying the banter” and “actively seeking to drag as much of the board as possible into your own malaise”

Bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? I guess not.

Me personally, I don’t find draft speculation very enjoyable to participate in… but I don’t go to draft speculation threads and tell people how useless I find the process to be. I don’t go in and despair about how who the team drafts won’t matter because [insert reason here]. I leave that talk to the people who enjoy it and read it after the draft ends to learn some stuff about the new guys to cheer for.

A bit dramatic, don't you think? I guess not. There are many aspects to the draft that can be discussed, including not drafting x or y player, x or y position, the incertitude of the process, the possible impact of x and y player, etc. and not all of it is going to be "positive".

Going around and poisoning the board with “whyyyyyyyy won’t the team loseeeeeeeeeeee moreeeeeee” is… a bit much, yeah?

Are you an aspiring writer?

 

[WilliamBrees]

We gonna beat the Commanders, Packers and Bucs with Haener? Ok! Not counting the Raiders cause they bad too so toss a coin on that one. We aren't winning the division. That Giants team is horrible and we hung on. Let's be real.

Giants also got destroyed by us the previous year and did McCoy actually play well?

 

[porculator]

A lot to consider.

Trend :

• Under Dennis Allen the teams capability trended down.
• Dennis Allen was fired, Rizzi named interim head coach, teams capability pointed up
• Team won first two games : teams capability pointed up
• Team loss to the Rams, barely beat the Giants : teams capability capped, came back down and leveled off.

Currently we are good enough to compete with good teams. We're also bad enough to barely beat bad teams.

Given our record, and immense probability of not making the playoffs even if we win out, you have two options

1. Continue playing as if you're in the playoffs, trying squeeze out every little bit of success you can
2. Try to determine the future and get answers to many questions.
   1. What is Haener capable of?
   2. What is Rattler capable of?
   3. Is Miller a reliable second RB?
   4. Is our future head coach already head coaching, or is there another?

You simply can't do both. You have to pick one or the other. If Fuaga gets an injury, needs surgery but can play the remaining games by delaying surgery, but puts risk of him making training camp on time next year. You don't forego the surgery. You do it now to look ahead. It's important we get answers so the new coach coming in has tape and knows what he has to work with.

That's not giving up. That's planning for the future which is anything BUT giving up.

I think conventional wisdom is to go option 2, but give the players who are playing every opportunity to try to win the game. Honestly with Carr hurt the only real difference between option 1 and 2 is whether you give Kamara 15 touches or 25. Our young guys at every other position are already playing enough due to all the injuries among the veterans.

 

[ShadowMan]

If that game would’ve been the Superbowl, it would've been the worst ones ever. Because if anyone thinks that was a good game to watch, you got in the good stuff too soon. We won is the only good thing that came out of it.

isn't that what's it is all about.......talk to the Chiefs see what they think.

 

[saintfan1972]

Giants also got destroyed by us the previous year and did McCoy actually play well?

I didn't see any of the Oline play well. Sure there may have been a play here or there, but overall it wasn't good.

 

[saintfan1972]

isn't that what's it is all about.......talk to the Chiefs see what they think.

Man, if you think that was a good game yesterday, go ahead. I'm glad we got the win, but it was far from a good game. Was like watching a JV game before the varsity. Is what it is. I don't sugarcoat anything even if it is my team.