N/S Zack Baun: Top Graded LB / DPOTW [Why Baun Isn’t Still a Saint Thread] (1 Viewer)

[fishing4food]

The Jets were using Vilma correctly and decided to go in another direction. That's one thing. The Giants were using Saquon Barkly correctly and decided to go in another direction because they didn't value the position. The Buffalo Bills did not re-sign cornerback Jabari Greer largely due to financial reasons and chasing high-profile free agents like Terrell Owens. The were using him right though.

These were all huge mistakes made by each respective team's management. Front office strategic errors are one thing. Talent evaluation errors are a completely different and not mistakes you want your defensive minded head coach to make. Allen is a genius when it comes to the secondary, but the errors in the front 7 are hard to overlook.

I watched Baun in last nights game. He gave up some big yardage plays to Daniels in the first half due to bad reads on his part. Glad to see he's thriving with the Eagles though.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I'm glad you showed your work /sarcasm. All I ask is that you support your opinion. I supported mine.

The guy above you supported it, I'm not about to pull up a bunch of data that proves you wrong only for you to dig your heels in lol. It's false and I'll leave it at that.

 

[TribuneUK]

Can we also agree that it was abandoned? I understand, you're saying it was abandoned because the Saints had a starter. Even if so, Allen would be very shortsighted to stop developing a promising MLB to take over for the starter who turned 32 three years ago. He was literally grooming 2 replacements for Lattimore. If he believed that Baun could be a MLB, which remember his quote from several months ago openly refutes, you'd think he would have been developing Baun to replace Davis. I think, and it's of course my opinion, Baun realized he wasn't in the plans at MLB, not now, not ever. But yes, neither of us can be 100% conclusive although the most recent evidence points to this.

I think that abandoned might not be the exact word I'd use, more that they changed course. I suspect he'd still be asked to be ready for stack duties as well, but that's just a suspicion of mine.

I think that you can't groom everyone forever. The DBs you mentioned are ones that haven't reached free agency yet, so the comparison isn't quite timely. Meanwhile, there seems to be the indirect complaint that we paid an All Pro LB (and team leader) top dollar on a long term contract, hoping he'd remain an All Pro team leader and the crime is that... he has?

But I did say back on a very early page in this thread, that there could be a reasonable debate had as to whether the Saints should have gone with the younger option. I think the team hasn't made a bad choice given what Davis continues to do, just that people are unnecessarily caught up in a desire to say 'woulda shoulda coulda' at Allen.

 

[livefromDC]

The guy above you supported it, I'm not about to pull up a bunch of data that proves you wrong only for you to dig your heels in lol. It's false and I'll leave it at that.

It's not. He pulled an article from when Baun was drafted by the previous head coach. The article I pulled is from May 2024 in which Allen says the Saints now see Baun as being a OLB and pass rusher. You can call it false all day, but it's a direct quote. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it false.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

It's not. He pulled an article from when Baun was drafted by the previous head coach. The article I pulled is from May 2024 in which Allen says the Saints now see Baun as being a OLB and pass rusher. You can call it false all day, but it's a direct quote. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it false.

you are inclined to think I'm passionate enough abou tthis to not like your comment. I'm choosing not to engage because I lack the passion to do so. This whole thread is ridiculous and I predicted it the night of the draft. #13 on the list, it's one of the few things I got right lol. Anyway, carry on.

Saints 2024 Predictions

If it's not been obvious by some of my post I study astrology, so I have some predictions. One of which has already likely, but I'll add a caveat to it. Anyway, here goes.1. Ryan Ramczyk is born in a dog year, and this is a dragon year...his enemy sign. I'd already felt retirement was...

saintsreport.com

 

[TribuneUK]

The guy above you supported it,

I have a name!!

 

[livefromDC]

I think that abandoned might not be the exact word I'd use, more that they changed course. I suspect he'd still be asked to be ready for stack duties as well, but that's just a suspicion of mine.

I think that you can't groom everyone forever. The DBs you mentioned are ones that haven't reached free agency yet, so the comparison isn't quite timely. Meanwhile, there seems to be the indirect complaint that we paid an All Pro LB (and team leader) top dollar on a long term contract, hoping he'd remain an All Pro team leader and the crime is that... he has?

But I did say back on a very early page in this thread, that there could be a reasonable debate had as to whether the Saints should have gone with the younger option. I think the team hasn't made a bad choice given what Davis continues to do, just that people are unnecessarily caught up in a desire to say 'woulda shoulda coulda' at Allen.

That's the thing. I have yet to see anything that suggests the Saints saw Baun as possible replacement to Davis. Have you? Besides articles from the draft, which you have to admit predates his time in a Saints uniform, has there been any indications of him competing at MLB? A training camp report? A quote?

 

[TribuneUK]

That's the thing. I have yet to see anything that suggests the Saints saw Baun as possible replacement to Davis. Have you? Besides articles from the draft, which you have to admit predates his time in a Saints uniform, has there been any indications of him competing at MLB? A training camp report? A quote?

This rather feels like trying to discount evidence that doesn't support a particular hypothesis, by adding new criteria for what constitutes evidence. I can't say I agree with it.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I have a name!!

My bad Trib lol

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

My bad Trib lol

New Orleans Saints linebacker Zach Baun finding comfort zone entering year 2

www.neworleanssaints.com

I couldn't resist lol, let him read it and weap. @livefromDC Make sure u read entire thing bro. This is from 2021. The plan was always to work him in at the offball spot. There's a quote in there where Allen specifically says what they ask the Sam/Mike to do w/ coverage was something he had to work on. Now the quote from Allen in 2024 may be accurate but there's more than enough proof to show the majority of his time here he was asked to be an offball LB...not a rush specialist.

"I've made so much progress," Baun said. "I'm excited to see where I go."
Baun once again switched positions this offseason, moving from strongside linebacker to the weakside, a change that will require him to be stronger in coverage. He trained for a few months back home in Wisconsin but has been working in New Orleans since April on his technique.
Saints defensive coordinator Dennis Allen elaborated on Baun and the process of working him into the weakside position.
"Certainly there were some things that he was able to do last year that gave us confidence he was ready to take the next step," Allen said. "Zack really got hurt last year with the hamstring in training camp and we all knew there was going to be a development (curve) from him in terms of being an off-the-ball linebacker and last year we kind of played him at Sam and Mike off the ball. Well, he lost a week or 10 days of opportunities in terms of reps with an injury last year. That development was slowed and once you get into the regular season it's hard to find all those reps to continue develop guys. Where you saw him have success was as an off-the-ball linebacker at Sam, what he had done in college. But the things that we ask the middle linebacker to do in terms of responsibility and the things we ask the Sam linebacker to do in terms of responsibility are very similar."

 

[livefromDC]

you are inclined to think I'm passionate enough abou tthis to not like your comment. I'm choosing not to engage because I lack the passion to do so. This whole thread is ridiculous and I predicted it the night of the draft. #13 on the list, it's one of the few things I got right lol. Anyway, carry on.

Saints 2024 Predictions

If it's not been obvious by some of my post I study astrology, so I have some predictions. One of which has already likely, but I'll add a caveat to it. Anyway, here goes.1. Ryan Ramczyk is born in a dog year, and this is a dragon year...his enemy sign. I'd already felt retirement was...

saintsreport.com

You and most of SR thought Baun was not used well here. Congrats?

 

[livefromDC]

New Orleans Saints linebacker Zach Baun finding comfort zone entering year 2

www.neworleanssaints.com

I couldn't resist lol, let him read it and weap. @livefromDC Make sure u read entire thing bro. This is from 2021. The plan was always to work him in at the offball spot. There's a quote in there where Allen specifically says what they ask the Sam/Mike to do w/ coverage was something he had to work on. Now the quote from Allen in 2024 may be accurate but there's more than enough proof to show the majority of his time here he was asked to be an offball LB...not a rush specialist.

LOL! Oh dear, read that again. It's explaining how they ask the SAm to do similar things to the Mike, not him playing Mike. It's basically talking about his transition from SAM to weakside.

The article snippet you're excited about? It's the beginning of his transition from SAM/Mike, which are similar, to him now transitioning to becoming an OLB. By 2024, Allen no longer saw him as a Mike. This snippet is talking about when they started to move him AWAY from that role and just being an OLB. This article is when they gave up on him at Mike.

 

[livefromDC]

This rather feels like trying to discount evidence that doesn't support a particular hypothesis, by adding new criteria for what constitutes evidence. I can't say I agree with it.

I get that and I agree. I'll relent on that. It's just that I remember the circumstances much differently. And our own memories are anecdotal at best. My viewpoint remains that the Saints didn't give Baun opportunities outside of ST and eventually pass rusher. I don't think Davis harmed his development as much as we'd like to say now, but thats speculation too. Ellias did find an article that points to when they transitioned him to playing just OLB though so that helps.

I would have like to see more opportunity for a player they moved up in the draft to get. If he turned out to be a bust, that's one thing, people miss in the draft. But to know they had a vision for him, then "transitioned away" from it just feels like mismanagement and is very frustrating.

 

[St. Widge]

That's the thing. I have yet to see anything that suggests the Saints saw Baun as possible replacement to Davis. Have you? Besides articles from the draft, which you have to admit predates his time in a Saints uniform, has there been any indications of him competing at MLB? A training camp report? A quote?

I mean he always played off ball LB in training camps and has always been listed as a LB or SLB. They have never listed him as an Edge or DE. Maybe the plan wasn't for him to replace Demario, but the plan clearly was for him to play off ball LB regardless of if it was MLB, SLB, or WLB. And he played SLB in games because Demario and Werner were the two starting LBs so he only got on the field when we played 3 LBs.

DA clearly decided by the end that he didn't think he was going to be able to play off ball LB at a high enough level to start over Werner or Demario, and that might have been a mistake depending on how you rate Werner, but it's not like the Saints didn't offer him a contract. They apparently offered more than Philly but he took the Philly offer and bet on himself to win a starting job there and then get a bigger contract.

It sucks but it happens. But I guess it comes down to do you view this, along with Ellis playing well in Atlanta, as proof that the Saints staff is good at developing LBs or as evidence that they are dumb because they keep letting good LBs leave? I think the answer depends on how much you dislike DA and how down you are on the organization in general.

 

[football]

Yeah when he belly flopped on that ball in the end zone I was done with him. So athletically gifted tho. Mimbo/Himbo.

My not so great memory was him tripping on himself covering Gronk his rookie year.