N/S Zack Baun: Top Graded LB / DPOTW [Why Baun Isn’t Still a Saint Thread] (21 Viewers)

[football]

Anzalone....average and horrible in coverage.

 

[jasonsw]

Why.

This is getting old. It happens to every team in the NFL.

Sometimes Players leave and become stars elsewhere and sometimes players come here and become stars.

Drew Brees and Demario became stars here, Taysom Hill has had a nice career also.

 

[Noble Saint]

Anzalone....average and horrible in coverage.

Yeah when he belly flopped on that ball in the end zone I was done with him. So athletically gifted tho. Mimbo/Himbo.

 

[Hank]

Hindsight is fun. But Zack Baun is excelling in a role that Demario Davis has exceptionally occupied for 7 years with the Saints. There wasn’t much future off ball snaps for Baun with 2 full time LBs ahead of him. He isn’t excelling as a full time pass rusher in Philly like we wanted him to be after 2023 but as the leader of Philly’s LB unit. Saints developed Baun into becoming a very good LB when he was an exclusive pass rusher coming out of Wisconsin.

Who would you rather have on your team based on talent alone?
Baun vs MOG?
Trex vs Davenport?

Poor decisions made by DA & Loomis..

 

[St. Geezy]

Who would you rather have on your team based on talent alone?
Baun vs MOG?
Trex vs Davenport?

Poor decisions made by DA & Loomis..

Trey will always be the one that got away. Just the absolute perfect storm of events transpired for it to occur.

Between the 2017 class all coming up for contracts together, the significant impact COVID had on the salary cap creating about a $25m to $30m negative swing on our obviously uniquely tightly-wound cap management style that relies on projection precision more than most teams, then Trey having a precarious injury history prior to him finally having one great year (his contract year), and us leaning in on the idea that we had a budding superstar in Marcus Davenport to line up across from Cam Jordan for several more years, it just wasn’t meant to be sadly.

Just very unfortunate circumstances. I think we all knew we probably let a good player out of the building at that time, but certainly no one knew we were letting go of some perennial pass rushing phenom that would also suddenly stay completely healthy and available every year.

 

[livefromDC]

The specific skillset is apart of Baun’s overall player profile. Baun’s scouting identified him as a college rushing OLB who was better suited to transition to pro off-ball LB than NFL level rusher based on his size and ability. His career has continued to develop into a thriving starting off ball LB, the position he was drafted for, not in the specific skillset of a rusher.

The position that he was drafted to convert to is where he’s thriving in the NFL. Off ball is his better long term skillset. He would’ve been buried or muddled further behind Cam, Trey, Davenport, and Carl if they were intending to make Baun a full time rusher. They’re all complete players as NFL Edges. He had an easier path to playing time and long term starting role as a LB. The goal was to develop Baun into a starting LB amongst Davis, and later Werner, as other LBs, including Werner, emerged or established themselves before he did.

He isn’t the first player who was drafted to play a different position as a pro based on their scouting. Fuaga played RT and Ruiz played C for their entire college careers but were moved to OL positions that were brand new to them. Some players immediately succeed at a new position while others take a few years to develop. Different players’ development pace differently.

Like mentioned before, Baun decided to be a team’s top 2 LB somewhere else. It’s not a bad thing that Baun’s succeeding elsewhere while the Saints had & have their starting LBs.

Besides, Baun was Payton’s pick at the time, not DA’s. The DC has input on the fit. But the selection is still the HC’s decision first. The HC has the initial vision first. That would be like saying some recent offensive or defensive picks not panning out is the fault of Woods or Carmichael.

Smh. Allen basically said he was never getting that chance as a Saint. Allen said they saw him as a special teamer, OLB, and pass rusher. He was not in competition with Davis because in Allen's view they played different positions because of different skill sets. You could just as well argue he didn't get a chance to play safety because the Saints had starting safeties already, smh. The only reason he was ever on the depth chart behind Davis was because LBers who make the team are always listed as depth for the other LB positions.

Zack Baun, while with the New Orleans Saints, was primarily developed as an outside linebacker and edge rusher. I religiously follower Saints camps and practices. Reports from various Saints training camps indicate that he worked in positions geared towards edge and outside linebacker roles. There is no evidence of him being considered for anything else. If someone can produce any evidence that he ever practiced any where inside, I'll relent. But based on my memory, what I've been able to dig through the pass couple days, there's no proof of this argument being made.

If the coach is telling you that you're an OLB/pass rusher and core special teamer, you're never playing MLB for that coach. It wasn't that we already had a starter, it was that there was NEVER going to be a path to MLB in New Orleans as long as Allen was here. I don't understand how you can argue against Allen's own statement on the matter.

After the Eagles signed Baun as a free agent, NJ Advance Media asked Saints head coach Dennis Allen at the NFL owners meetings where he thought his former player would best fit with his new team.

“Zack’s probably best, we felt like, as an outside backer and an on-the-ball backer,” Allen said. “He’s got some rush ability.”

Eagles not using Zack Baun in the position where his former coach thought he was best

The free-agent addition from the New Orleans Saints ran with the first-team defense during practice Wednesday at the NovaCare Complex.

www.nj.com

And true to his word, that's where Baun practiced as a Saint. There's no proof that he was ever considered for MLB role. None.

 

[TribuneUK]

I replied directly with the counter evidence I have, but maybe you didn't see it. Click the quoted text for the important second paragraph.

Rookie Roots: Story of Saints draft pick Zack Baun

"We saw someone that we felt was going to be drafted in the top 20 picks of the second round," Saints Coach Sean Payton said. "We felt like this was a player that would be hard for us to get because we didn't have a second-round pick. Fortunately, he came within range and we were able to make a trade.

"He had a lot of production in college as a rush end. He's a guy that we think can play at the Mike position and the Sam position. I do like his pressure traits, but we see him as someone that can play in a stack position if need be or certainly be a guy that can give us some versatility as a rusher."

 

[fishing4food]

It happens to all teams. The New York Jets let Jonathan Vilma walk. It's not just the Saints.

 

[livefromDC]

I replied directly with the counter evidence I have, but maybe you didn't see it. Click the quoted text for the important second paragraph.

Yes, that's Coach Payton's words from when he was drafted. No argument there. I won't deny a direct quote. Perhaps if Payton remained the Saints coach, we would have seen that vision play out.

Coach Allen clearly didn't agree after several years of having direct access to Baun. Allen gets bashed unfairly for many things around here. This isn't one of those occasions. That quote is from May of this year. After having Baun in house for years, Allen said, "nah, that guy is a special teamer, OLBer and sometime pash rusher". The Eagles immediately said the same things Payton was saying when he drafted Baun, he can play MLB. Allen said he's an OLB/pass rusher. That's why I'm refuting this idea that he would have ever gotten that shot here because of starters. You can't get the chance to play a position you're not being considered to play.

 

[TribuneUK]

Yes, that's Coach Payton's words from when he was drafted. No argument there. I won't deny a direct quote. Perhaps if Payton remained the Saints coach, we would have seen that vision play out.

Coach Allen clearly didn't agree after several years of having direct access to Baun. Allen gets bashed unfairly for many things around here. This isn't one of those occasions. That quote is from May of this year. After having Baun in house for years, Allen said, "nah, that guy is a special teamer, OLBer and sometime pash rusher". The Eagles immediately said the same things Payton was saying when he drafted Baun.

Yeah, so I think the quotes I gave a couple pages back give a possible sequence of events in line with these quotes/articles, too. My interpretation is a little more positive towards Allen, in that he took an athlete not getting on the field enough as a stack LB and got him into another position. Then his comments related to how they were now using him, while a bit of coach speak avoided the fact he hadn't at that point turned into a stack player that could get on the field.

But I am comfortable we are both able to apply some interpretation to this and neither able to be 100% conclusive. I do think that the SP quote clearly refutes the notion that there was never a consideration of Baun for MLB. Moreover it sounds like that was all part of the plan from the outset.

 

[livefromDC]

It happens to all teams. The New York Jets let Jonathan Vilma walk. It's not just the Saints.

The Jets were using Vilma correctly and decided to go in another direction. That's one thing. The Giants were using Saquon Barkly correctly and decided to go in another direction because they didn't value the position. The Buffalo Bills did not re-sign cornerback Jabari Greer largely due to financial reasons and chasing high-profile free agents like Terrell Owens. The were using him right though.

These were all huge mistakes made by each respective team's management. Front office strategic errors are one thing. Talent evaluation errors are a completely different and not mistakes you want your defensive minded head coach to make. Allen is a genius when it comes to the secondary, but the errors in the front 7 are hard to overlook.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Smh. Allen basically said he was never getting that chance as a Saint. Allen said they saw him as a special teamer, OLB, and pass rusher. He was not in competition with Davis because in Allen's view they played different positions because of different skill sets. You could just as well argue he didn't get a chance to play safety because the Saints had starting safeties already, smh. The only reason he was ever on the depth chart behind Davis was because LBers who make the team are always listed as depth for the other LB positions.

Zack Baun, while with the New Orleans Saints, was primarily developed as an outside linebacker and edge rusher. I religiously follower Saints camps and practices. Reports from various Saints training camps indicate that he worked in positions geared towards edge and outside linebacker roles. There is no evidence of him being considered for anything else. If someone can produce any evidence that he ever practiced any where inside, I'll relent. But based on my memory, what I've been able to dig through the pass couple days, there's no proof of this argument being made.

If the coach is telling you that you're an OLB/pass rusher and core special teamer, you're never playing MLB for that coach. It wasn't that we already had a starter, it was that there was NEVER going to be a path to MLB in New Orleans as long as Allen was here. I don't understand how you can argue against Allen's own statement on the matter.

Eagles not using Zack Baun in the position where his former coach thought he was best

The free-agent addition from the New Orleans Saints ran with the first-team defense during practice Wednesday at the NovaCare Complex.

www.nj.com

And true to his word, that's where Baun practiced as a Saint. There's no proof that he was ever considered for MLB role. None.

OH wow there's a lot of false in this lol

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I replied directly with the counter evidence I have, but maybe you didn't see it. Click the quoted text for the important second paragraph.

There's a lot of truth in here

 

[livefromDC]

Yeah, so I think the quotes I gave a couple pages back give a possible sequence of events in line with these quotes/articles, too. My interpretation is a little more positive towards Allen, in that he took an athlete not getting on the field enough as a stack LB and got him into another position. Then his comments related to how they were now using him, while a bit of coach speak avoided the fact he hadn't at that point turned into a stack player that could get on the field.

But I am comfortable we are both able to apply some interpretation to this and neither able to be 100% conclusive. I do think that the SP quote clearly refutes the notion that there was never a consideration of Baun for MLB. Moreover it sounds like that was all part of the plan from the outset.

Can we also agree that it was abandoned? I understand, you're saying it was abandoned because the Saints had a starter. Even if so, Allen would be very shortsighted to stop developing a promising MLB to take over for the starter who turned 32 three years ago. He was literally grooming 2 replacements for Lattimore. If he believed that Baun could be a MLB, which remember his quote from several months ago openly refutes, you'd think he would have been developing Baun to replace Davis. I think, and it's of course my opinion, Baun realized he wasn't in the plans at MLB, not now, not ever. But yes, neither of us can be 100% conclusive although the most recent evidence points to this.

 

[livefromDC]

OH wow there's a lot of false in this lol

I'm glad you showed your work /sarcasm. All I ask is that you support your opinion. I supported mine.