N/S Zack Baun: Top Graded LB / DPOTW [Why Baun Isn’t Still a Saint Thread] (10 Viewers)

[B4YOU]

No doubt we should have moved on from Jordan, but Davis was still playing like one of the top MLBs in the NFL and he's still playing at a very high level so I can see why it would have been hard to move on from him. Can you imagine the outrage had they let Davis go and said that Baun or Ellis was going to be the starting MLB?

I mean I like adding young talent, but you also have to have some veteran guys around to establish the standard you want to set and Demario is really both establishing the standard in the locker room and doing it on the field.

The mistake was not managing the cap in a way that allows rebuilding and going young/cheap. Both guys are 35yo which is the wall for any position besides QB and K/P. Jordan will cost 20M in dead money while Davis will likely be 13M. We have to restructure to get under the cap every year and tie ourselves to players at prices that don't match. Jordan is not a 13M/yr DE this year or last year. Davis has a cap number of 12.5M next year because we added a 12M extension for 2025 when he is 36yo. These are overpriced contracts by a GM who dug himself in a hole. I'm not sure Pete Warner even lives up to his 7.5M/yr contract based on his play.

Bad contracts, poor talent evaluation, reluctance to either draft to scheme or scheme to players.......these are whole organization problems.

If DA is "keep chopping wood", then Loomis should be "keep digging the hole".

 

[rlemieux]

Probably not

How about Trey's numbers would've led our team in sacks (this year included) except in 2022 when Cam Jordan had 8.5 and Hendrickson only had 8 or in his last 27 games he's had 27.5 sacks or since leaving New Orleans he's had 50.5 sacks.

 

[los226]

If there's a complaint with the Saints and Baun, it's the use of resources. They used a 2020 and 2021 3rd round pick to trade up for him. Then the following year they used a 2nd round pick on Pete Werner. That's a lot of draft capital that could have been spread around at other positions.

Are your kidding me? We used TWO third round picks on Baun?!? I totally forgot about the extra third to move up. What a waste of draft capital!

 

[sfidc3]

Players choose where to go. That's why it's called 'free' agency. He wasn't overtaking Davis, so he went where he could start.

Or are you seriously suggesting the Saints should have used a transition tag* on a backup Mike backer to keep him around?

* Priced at a hair under $20m for one year. Top value.

I'm as big a DA critic as you will see on this board but this move really wasn't about DA.....DD was still playing at a very high level when Baun went elsewhere, and I think Baun knew he was good enough to get a starting job elsewhere....

 

[RJS]

Are your kidding me? We used TWO third round picks on Baun?!? I totally forgot about the extra third to move up. What a waste of draft capital!

If it makes you feel better we also traded our 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round selections that year to draft Adam Trautman.

Six draft picks on Baun and Trautman in 2020/21

 

[SonOfNOLA]

The mistake was not managing the cap in a way that allows rebuilding and going young/cheap. Both guys are 35yo which is the wall for any position besides QB and K/P. Jordan will cost 20M in dead money while Davis will likely be 13M. We have to restructure to get under the cap every year and tie ourselves to players at prices that don't match. Jordan is not a 13M/yr DE this year or last year. Davis has a cap number of 12.5M next year because we added a 12M extension for 2025 when he is 36yo. These are overpriced contracts by a GM who dug himself in a hole. I'm not sure Pete Warner even lives up to his 7.5M/yr contract based on his play.

Bad contracts, poor talent evaluation, reluctance to either draft to scheme or scheme to players.......these are whole organization problems.

If DA is "keep chopping wood", then Loomis should be "keep digging the hole".

Agreed with bad draft picks and bad talent evaluation on some players. The cap and certain contracts aren’t stopping the Saints from being a good team though. Cam has the worst contract on the team but his contract and others hasn’t prevented the team from adding 10M-30M per year FAs. Although Demario and Cam are the same age, Demario’s production matches every bit of his salary. Defense would be an even bigger mess without him. Saints were a winning team because of the draft and having an elite QB. Cap space was never the driving force behind the Saints’ success.

When teams are sitting on cap space, they’ll eventually have to use it up to extend their draft picks if they’re good players. Teams usually have a ton of cap room because they aren’t rostering many talented players that are performing at a high salary range level. Or their best players are still playing on their rookie deals.

Look at the Lions for example. They got better by swapping Stafford for a younger good QB in Goff, hiring a significantly better offensive coaching staff, and drafting Hutchinson, Sewell, Gibbs, St. Brown, J. Williams, Branch, and LaPorta. They weren’t keeping cap room available for splash FAs. They hit on their draft picks really well and will have to use their cap up on extending Goff and over 7 great young players from their drafts.

The same happened with the Saints past draft success. Saints cap is in the circumstances it’s in by extending 10 top market valued draft picks from the ‘16, ‘17, ‘19, and ‘20 classes, along with repeatedly extending elite greats Brees and Cam all at the same time. Their solution is primarily getting back to the same scouting that brought them the 2016-2017 draft classes.

 

[SAINT BIGAL]

How about Trey's numbers would've led our team in sacks (this year included) except in 2022 when Cam Jordan had 8.5 and Hendrickson only had 8 or in his last 27 games he's had 2.7.5 sacks or since leaving New Orelans he's had 50.5 sacks.

I believe there’s other factors to be considered other than sacks. IIRC T-Rex had some issues with availability (health) and maybe not so good against the rush. Neither he nor Davenport play for the Saints anymore so it’s a moot point.

In hindsight, I obviously would have kept Hendrickson over Dav.

 

[rlemieux]

The real problem with guys like Baun and Hendrickson is what signing them meant. In Hendrickson's case you've spent multiple 1st and 2nd round picks attempting to fill a need when you had a dominate player in the building. Baun looks to be an ascending player. Davis has been one of the best LB's in football but he's declining, even so slightly, he'll continue to decline (that's a fact age does that to everyone). He will be 36 before the start of next season, while that doesn't seem old in football years he might as well be 50. You have players in the building that are areas of need and here we are not generating a pass rush and having zero depth at LB.

 

[St. Widge]

The mistake was not managing the cap in a way that allows rebuilding and going young/cheap. Both guys are 35yo which is the wall for any position besides QB and K/P. Jordan will cost 20M in dead money while Davis will likely be 13M. We have to restructure to get under the cap every year and tie ourselves to players at prices that don't match. Jordan is not a 13M/yr DE this year or last year. Davis has a cap number of 12.5M next year because we added a 12M extension for 2025 when he is 36yo. These are overpriced contracts by a GM who dug himself in a hole. I'm not sure Pete Warner even lives up to his 7.5M/yr contract based on his play.

Bad contracts, poor talent evaluation, reluctance to either draft to scheme or scheme to players.......these are whole organization problems.

If DA is "keep chopping wood", then Loomis should be "keep digging the hole".

I mean, that's two contracts. We aren't in this position just due to two contracts. And while the Jordan deal was a mistake, I don't know why you would want to move on from an All-Pro MLB who is also the clear leader of your entire team regardless of how old he is. Truth is that Davis is still playing at a very high level and is still a good deal at his salary. Baun and Ellis were no where close to Davis' level when they left and Baun left because he wanted to be a starter not because we didn't have the money. He's on a really cheap deal in Philly.

But, in the end, it's all about talent evaluation. You can't move on from older players if you don't bring in good young talent to replace them with. For example, they couldn't move on from Jordan because all the young DEs they drafted were misses.

And I'm not saying that Loomis should stay and I think Ireland should go too. I'm just saying that in the one very specific instance with Baun, they didn't do the wrong thing as much as Baun wanted to start and that wasn't going to be available here because he was behind Davis and Werner.

 

[St. Geezy]

 

[DerrickB]

 

[Bill]

It was bound to happen.

 

[BreesusSaves]

Saints can't draft though, amirite?

 

[sainthood]

The Saints misused him for the bulk of his time in New Orleans. (i.e. the Saints did not use him as a pass rusher enough.)

 

[Snakehead]

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