Read this and tell me why anyone WOULDN'T pick PIT

[kfran]

I know this is being discussed in a bunch of threads, but I'm not going to cross-post and I can't decide which thread to post in, so here's a new thread.

Check this out and tell me why it's so objectionable that people in the media DARE to pick Pitt over NO.

...And as for the heads on tee vee, let's see, Pittsburgh is still the defending Super Bowl champs, who are at home and are desperate to salvage their season. Vs. a team that was 3-13 last year, are on the road and could be argued to have shown some complacency 2 weeks ago against an AFC team. If I weren't a Saints fan, I'd probably pick Pitt too.

No respeck!

How do you figure?

Can't speak for anyone else, but here's why it's "objectionable" for me:

Great stats are only important to losing teams when they're losing.

We Saints fans should know that all too well.

This article on the Steelers really sums it up for me:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06314/737237-66.stm

The question I asked myself, with all of the debate going on, was the following:

Since the Steeler's and Saints stats are so similar going into Sunday's game, which QB would I want to be going into battle with: Drew Brees or Ben R?

Therein was my answer. :crazy2:

 

[Chairman_LMAO]

Chairman...I wish you had placed more emphasis on the turnover margin. It bolsters your point greatly.

Without all those turnovers, Pittsburgh would not only have much better stats, they would have more wins.

The Steelers are not a team to take lightly. If/when they are on their game and protect the ball, they are one tough team to play against.

You're probably right. I didn't purposely de-emphasize it, it's just that given the other stats, it didn't seem too relevant to me.

But you and Spam make good points, and thanks to both of you for bringing some substance to this thread. Spam makes some really good points as well.

It's not that I think Pitt is great or that they will beat the Saints. To the contrary, I think the Saints stand a great chance of winning this game. And I'll certainly be pulling for them, as always.

What I was attempting to show, and obviously you understood my point, was that it's not like Pitt doesn't belong on the field with the Saints. Hey, the Saints are probably the better team. I'm not trying to say they're not.

Just trying to point out that there are reasons beyond "OMG THEY HATE THE SAINTS!!!!!" for someone who is not a Saints fan to think that this game is pretty much a pick 'em, with Pitt having the edge due to home field and an extra dose of "want to" over a team that's gonna still be in first win or lose.

That said, you know I'm not one of those guys who can't bring himself to concede good points that go against his original point. And both you and Spam have made some. So thanks, I'm smarter for having read them.

 

[nferra2]

You tend to pad your stats when you are behind in a game.

 

[saintlyn8]

Turnover margin hasn't affected the fact that Pitt scores a whopping 1 FG less than the Saints per game and gives up a whopping 2 points more. Against tougher competition.

Turnovers schmurnovers. It's moot when it doesn't significantly affect other stats, primarily points scored and points scored against.

Turnovers are the biggest stat in any game except ones where there aren't any.... For instance we would of beaten the ravens if we hadn't thrown two interceptions for td's..... Turn overs are a huge part of football, pitt's to's absolutely killed them in the raiders and denver game. The raiders beat them, and only threw for 19 yards or something ridiculous like that.... Turnovers are a huge part of why pitt is where they are, if neither the saints or pitt turnover the ball then the game should be close, and could go either way.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

You're probably right. I didn't purposely de-emphasize it, it's just that given the other stats, it didn't seem too relevant to me.

QUOTE]

Not to call you out or anything but how is it that you did not deem relevant what is widely regarded as the most imp. stat in football?

I could see forgetting it, but overlooking it is crazy.

 

[mvtrucking]

No turnovers should be the name of the game, for the Saints Sunday. If they don't turn the ball over, they can win, period.

 

[Chairman_LMAO]

Not to call you out or anything but how is it that you did not deem relevant what is widely regarded as the most imp. stat in football?

I could see forgetting it, but overlooking it is crazy.

I've already tried to explain my rationale. Pittsburgh is scoring as much as they're allowing. Add that to yards gained vs. yards allowed and a season-long TOP advantage and it just didn't seem to me that -- IN THIS CASE -- it's been all that significant.

I'll concede that that's perhaps a flawed observation. Bulldawg and Spam have made some good points that have made me realize that I might have been undervaluing their impact.

But in the meantime, predictably, my original point (that Pittsburgh is a lot closer to the Saints than many Saints fans are giving them credit for, and there are legit reasons for people to think Pitt might win that aren't all about "hating the Saints") is lost among the "OMG how could you say that?!?!?!?"

But whatever. 66-3 Saints! Eat that, media!

 

[LSSpam]

I'll concede that that's perhaps a flawed observation. Bulldawg and Spam have made some good points that have made me realize that I might have been undervaluing their impact.

I forgot to mention the other stat-skewing game. The 13 to 20 loss to the Raiders, they gained 300+ yards, held the Raiders to 93 (93!!!) yards of offense, managed to lose.

You remember the 31-34 loss to Atlanta last year? We had like 450 yards of offense, Atlanta had only 250 or so. But Atlanta had blocked a field goal and returned it for a TD, a fumble returned for a TD, and an INT that set up a short field? And remember how most of us were pretty much immune to those sorts of games by then?

That's Pittsburghs season.

 

[kt saint]

A Big thing people are leaving out is the teams Psyche. What I mean is the Steelers (weak psyche) may come out playing flat, if they do I don't believe they can get their minds right to make a game out of it. On the other hand if they come out strong they have to maintain that lead through out the game or risk falling apart. The Saint (strong psyche) have shown the ability to take the lead in a game, fight through adversity to maintain or re-get a lead in a game, and the ability to stay poised and take a lead to the finish.
Bottom line as I see it, if the Saints come out with a quick lead the Steelers don't stand much of a chance.The Steelers are a team on the verge of exploding. The question is will it be up or down?

 

[syracuse saint]

I think the stats are surprising and interesting Chairman.

It just emphasizes what turnovers do to a team and further emphasizes that our game w/the Steelers will either come down to turnovers, or whoever has the ball last!

 

[MJ in Calif]

Turnover margin hasn't affected the fact that Pitt scores a whopping 1 FG less than the Saints per game and gives up a whopping 2 points more. Against tougher competition.

Turnovers schmurnovers. It's moot when it doesn't significantly affect other stats, primarily points scored and points scored against.

Chairman, you've got a great career as a statistician if you decide to go that route. However, one cannot ignore the TO ratio and that is definitely what's hurt the Steelers this year irrespective of all the stats you've posted. Trust me, turnovers are going to be THE key factor in Sunday's game. If the Saints do not turn it over, they stand a great chance of winning. Hopefully, the Saints D will create some TOs this Sunday. That has been one area that the Saints have had trouble with the entire season thus far; creating turnovers.

Now, with respect to the media predictions, I don;t think it's as much the Pitt game as it is with respect to the entire season. Many of these pundits predicted the Saints would win, what, 3-6 games this season total? Many of these psuedo-prognosticators never gave them a prayer, and even after 6-2 they're still saying negative things, and that's fine. But what do you expect to find when you're on a Saints forum with respect to what appears to be a bunch of blowhards who just love to hear themselves talk. And if the Saints win Sunday, what then? Well, then Pitt will be categorized as another "easy" opponent because of their record and the fact that all of these minions picked them to beat the Saints will be conveniently forgotten. What a bunch of pukes!

 

[Chairman_LMAO]

But what do you expect to find when you're on a Saints forum with respect to what appears to be a bunch of blowhards who just love to hear themselves talk.

Heh. Indeed. A lesson I continue to think I've learned, but continue to prove that I really haven't.

 

[Shawn]

Now, with respect to the media predictions, I don;t think it's as much the Pitt game as it is with respect to the entire season. Many of these pundits predicted the Saints would win, what, 3-6 games this season total? Many of these psuedo-prognosticators never gave them a prayer, and even after 6-2 they're still saying negative things, and that's fine. But what do you expect to find when you're on a Saints forum with respect to what appears to be a bunch of blowhards who just love to hear themselves talk. And if the Saints win Sunday, what then? Well, then Pitt will be categorized as another "easy" opponent because of their record and the fact that all of these minions picked them to beat the Saints will be conveniently forgotten. What a puch of pukes!

I think you're really off base here.

Maybe the Steelers aren't as good as people think. But most folks agree a big part of their problems are the play of Roethlisberger (sp?), a QB that was playing great last year. He's a wild card--it's not like he's an Aaron Brooks, who has a long predictable history of question marks behind him. Everyone, including myself, thinks Ben will revert to his old form either sometime this season, or next season. It's a question of when. That will make them a formidable team immediately. Will this week be the week things come back together for him?

In the end, the Steelers are talented team, playing at home, with their backs against the wall. That counts for a lot. Remember that most experts had the Saints picked to beat Atlanta at home this year, though everyone felt the Falcons were a vastly superior team. There is a similarity between the two games.

By comparison, should the Saints lose, I don't think it would sully the Saints reputation.

And as was pointed out above, I think a quick start by the Saints could cause a Steeler implosion, precisely because it's an emotional game for them.

I understand why so many people are picking the Steelers. It's not a big deal.

 

[BullDawg]

You're probably right. I didn't purposely de-emphasize it, it's just that given the other stats, it didn't seem too relevant to me.

But you and Spam make good points, and thanks to both of you for bringing some substance to this thread. Spam makes some really good points as well.

It's not that I think Pitt is great or that they will beat the Saints. To the contrary, I think the Saints stand a great chance of winning this game. And I'll certainly be pulling for them, as always.

What I was attempting to show, and obviously you understood my point, was that it's not like Pitt doesn't belong on the field with the Saints. Hey, the Saints are probably the better team. I'm not trying to say they're not.

Just trying to point out that there are reasons beyond "OMG THEY HATE THE SAINTS!!!!!" for someone who is not a Saints fan to think that this game is pretty much a pick 'em, with Pitt having the edge due to home field and an extra dose of "want to" over a team that's gonna still be in first win or lose.

That said, you know I'm not one of those guys who can't bring himself to concede good points that go against his original point. And both you and Spam have made some. So thanks, I'm smarter for having read them.

Oh...I read you loud and clear. I keep telling my oldest son the same thing over and over.

"Son. They play the games for a reason. Otherwise they'd just name the champion before the season started and be done with it."

I know the Saints can beat the Steelers. At the same time, the Steelers can beat the Saints. I know I'm stating the obvious here, but it all boils down to who plays the better game come Sunday. For anyone who doesn't believe that...go ask Da Bears.