Read this and tell me why anyone WOULDN'T pick PIT (1 Viewer)

[Guitarzan]

Zedung!!!!!!!!!

 

[blackadder]

Pitt -11
NO -3

turnover margin

If we can get on the plus side of that ratio I think we can make noise in the playoffs.

 

[Yeti]

I don't think we are going to win either.

 

[NPs6724]

Well, let's remember the Saints have engineered approximately 6 drives this year that totaled 6 minutes. That is purposely controlling the ball and sacrificing stats. The Steelers also are usually behind so Ben gets garbage stats a la Aaron Brooks. He had 400 yards passing on Denver. They were also behind by a ton. Coincidence? I'd like to see Ben throw for 250 in a game he is winning, not a blowout for the other team. The only stat that matters is record. The fact is the Steelers have found a way to lose several games and have to pass their way back into it. I figured as Saints fan we would understand garbage stats when we see them.

 

[Jake]

well i'm not saying the saints are going to win for sure but how can you put a bunch of stats up and leave the most important one out?

 

[LSSpam]

Turnover margin hasn't affected the fact that Pitt scores a whopping 1 FG less than the Saints per game and gives up a whopping 2 points more. Against tougher competition.

Turnovers schmurnovers. It's moot when it doesn't significantly affect other stats, primarily points scored and points scored against.

Pittsburghs scoring stats are skewed by a 45-7 victory over KC, a game in which they didn't turn it over.

Pittsburgh typically turns it over, they're a careless team, and when they do so they are very beatable (exhibit A: Raiders beat the Steelers. The Raiders. Those Raiders)

But yes, if Pittsburgh doesn't turn it over, a rarity, they are very strong.

The Saints scoring stats are skewed by a 35-22 drumming by Baltimore, a game in which we turned it over 5 times. The Saints typically don't turn the ball over, they are a smart careful team. But when they do, they are very beatable (reference: Ravens game).

But no, if the Saints don't turn it over, they are not easy to beat.



So in other words, the game will likely come down to how careful or careless the respective teams are.

Gee, that's novel.

(Saints are more likely to be careful and have few to no turnovers then Pittsburgh. Ergo the Saints should be favored.)

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

This arguement is so flawed it's not funny!

How many yards did AB and our O rack up because we were not close to being in the game?

 

[NPs6724]

Pittsburghs scoring stats are skewed by a 45-7 victory over KC, a game in which they didn't turn it over.

Pittsburgh typically turns it over, they're a careless team, and when they do so they are very beatable (exhibit A: Raiders beat the Steelers. The Raiders. Those Raiders)

But yes, if Pittsburgh doesn't turn it over, a rarity, they are very strong.

The Saints scoring stats are skewed by a 35-22 drumming by Baltimore, a game in which we turned it over 5 times. The Saints typically don't turn the ball over, they are a smart careful team. But when they do, they are very beatable (reference: Ravens game).

But no, if the Saints don't turn it over, they are not easy to beat.



So in other words, the game will likely come down to how careful or careless the respective teams are.

Gee, that's novel.

(Saints are more likely to be careful and have few to no turnovers then Pittsburgh. Ergo the Saints should be favored.)

Also, last week we could've scored at the end of the game to make it 38. We didn't because we had guarantee'd the game. We could've run up the score on Tampa instead of driving for 9 minutes. We could've scored quickly against Philly and had a shoot-out for the final 8 minutes. We could've come out of halftime and lit Atlanta up instead of running the majority of the half. When we have the game won, we COMPLETE THE GAME.

We don't just run, run, run, punt though. We pick up first downs, but stay in-bounds. We run the play clock down to at least 3 on EVERY play. We don't quit trying, we just slow it down. THAT'S the difference. Baltimore quit trying against us (at least the offense did), which is how we came back. Our offense doesn't quit, it just takes its time and limits long plays. They cut it down to 10-yard plays that get first downs. Stats don't tell us this, but those watchig the games know. We don't need to blow teams out because we can end games on OUR terms.

 

[BullDawg]

Chairman...I wish you had placed more emphasis on the turnover margin. It bolsters your point greatly.

Without all those turnovers, Pittsburgh would not only have much better stats, they would have more wins.

The Steelers are not a team to take lightly. If/when they are on their game and protect the ball, they are one tough team to play against.

 

[LSSpam]

This arguement is so flawed it's not funny!

How many yards did AB and our O rack up because we were not close to being in the game?

That's a good comparison. The reason why I balk at "Pittsburgh is really soooooo good!" is because I was a Saints fan. I used to say the same things. Tell me if this is familiar

"Gosh our team is so talented. We have as much talent as anyone in the NFL. If we could just cut out the stupid mistakes....."

The problem is that stupid mistakes are part of it, just like rocket arms, 6'4 wide recievers, and 350lb guards. Suggesting "if they just don't turn the ball over" when they are a team which consistently turns the ball over is like saying "If our CBs just grew an additional 4 inches in height...."

Ben Roethlisberger is making terrible decisions this year. He has all year. I've got no reason to suppose it'll change this Sunday. They are a team that makes stupid mistakes. They've earned their record. If they cut them out tomorrow we may be in trouble, but again, you have no reason to suppose anything will be different tomorrow then it was the first 8 games.

 

[NPs6724]

Chairman...I wish you had placed more emphasis on the turnover margin. It bolsters your point greatly.

Without all those turnovers, Pittsburgh would not only have much better stats, they would have more wins.

The Steelers are not a team to take lightly. If/when they are on their game and protect the ball, they are one tough team to play against.

Actually, their stats would most likely be WORSE because most of them are coming when down by alot. They gain 70 yards, turn it over. Gain 50 yards, turn it over. Gain 60 yards, turn it over. 180 yards, zero points.

 

[Guitarzan]

Pittsburghs scoring stats are skewed by a 45-7 victory over KC, a game in which they didn't turn it over.

Pittsburgh typically turns it over, they're a careless team, and when they do so they are very beatable (exhibit A: Raiders beat the Steelers. The Raiders. Those Raiders)

But yes, if Pittsburgh doesn't turn it over, a rarity, they are very strong.

The Saints scoring stats are skewed by a 35-22 drumming by Baltimore, a game in which we turned it over 5 times. The Saints typically don't turn the ball over, they are a smart careful team. But when they do, they are very beatable (reference: Ravens game).

But no, if the Saints don't turn it over, they are not easy to beat.



So in other words, the game will likely come down to how careful or careless the respective teams are.

Gee, that's novel.

(Saints are more likely to be careful and have few to no turnovers then Pittsburgh. Ergo the Saints should be favored.)

plus taking a knee and not scoring TD's has kinda skewed out scoring stats

 

[LSSpam]

plus taking a knee and not scoring TD's has kinda skewed out scoring stats

Well I dont even think you need to get into a game-by-game or series-by-series analysis.

It's very simple.

Pittsburgh is a team which has tremendous trouble winning when it turns the ball over. This year it turns the ball over a lot.

The Saints are a team which has tremendous success when they don't turn the ball over. This year they don't turn the ball over a lot.

Based on prior results of 8 games, the most likely outcome is a

Pittsburgh turns it over a lot
Saints turn it over little

game (as opposed to P+ turnovers/S+ turnovers, P-/S+, P-/P- outcomes).

Ergo, it stands to reason, the Saints are most likely to win.

 

[kfran]

I know this is being discussed in a bunch of threads, but I'm not going to cross-post and I can't decide which thread to post in, so here's a new thread.

Check this out and tell me why it's so objectionable that people in the media DARE to pick Pitt over NO.

...And as for the heads on tee vee, let's see, Pittsburgh is still the defending Super Bowl champs, who are at home and are desperate to salvage their season. Vs. a team that was 3-13 last year, are on the road and could be argued to have shown some complacency 2 weeks ago against an AFC team. If I weren't a Saints fan, I'd probably pick Pitt too.

No respeck!

How do you figure?

Can't speak for anyone else, but here's why it's "objectionable" for me:

Great stats are only important to losing teams when they're losing.

We Saints fans should know that all too well.

This article on the Steelers really sums it up for me:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06314/737237-66.stm

The question I asked myself, with all of the debate going on, was the following:

Since the Steeler's and Saints stats are so similar going into Sunday's game, which QB would I want to be going into battle with: Drew Brees or Ben R?

Therein was my answer. :crazy2:

 

[Chairman_LMAO]

Chairman...I wish you had placed more emphasis on the turnover margin. It bolsters your point greatly.

Without all those turnovers, Pittsburgh would not only have much better stats, they would have more wins.

The Steelers are not a team to take lightly. If/when they are on their game and protect the ball, they are one tough team to play against.

You're probably right. I didn't purposely de-emphasize it, it's just that given the other stats, it didn't seem too relevant to me.

But you and Spam make good points, and thanks to both of you for bringing some substance to this thread. Spam makes some really good points as well.

It's not that I think Pitt is great or that they will beat the Saints. To the contrary, I think the Saints stand a great chance of winning this game. And I'll certainly be pulling for them, as always.

What I was attempting to show, and obviously you understood my point, was that it's not like Pitt doesn't belong on the field with the Saints. Hey, the Saints are probably the better team. I'm not trying to say they're not.

Just trying to point out that there are reasons beyond "OMG THEY HATE THE SAINTS!!!!!" for someone who is not a Saints fan to think that this game is pretty much a pick 'em, with Pitt having the edge due to home field and an extra dose of "want to" over a team that's gonna still be in first win or lose.

That said, you know I'm not one of those guys who can't bring himself to concede good points that go against his original point. And both you and Spam have made some. So thanks, I'm smarter for having read them.