49ers analyst suspended over racist comments about Lamar Jackson (1 Viewer)

[SaintJ]

Tim Ryan played his entire career for Chicago. Are you thinking of Tim Green?

Right about when I was thinking about the anniversary on Saturday of the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor.

 

[Spylake]

All I’m saying is put that BS “people are too sensitive these days” **** away
It makes the person seem ignorant of history or willfully undermining ‘minority ‘complaints

Find me one successful person who believe blaming what happened in the past is the winning strategy going forward.

Remember the past, learn its lessons but dwelling on it can be an anchor to progress.

Put anyone of us in front of a microphone for hundreds of hours in a career and tell me none of you would say something offensive or stupid. REAL progress would be considering this a technical statement about optics and contrast instead of some racial dog whistle.

Reminds me of marriages where every new slight is relished as an excuse to relitigate every previous complaint in the marriage.

Just my 2¢

 

[First Time Poster]

Find me one successful person who believe blaming what happened in the past is the winning strategy going forward.

Remember the past, learn its lessons but dwelling on it can be an anchor to progress.

Put anyone of us in front of a microphone for hundreds of hours in a career and tell me none of you would say something offensive or stupid. REAL progress would be considering this a technical statement about optics and contrast instead of some racial dog whistle.

Reminds me of marriages where every new slight is relished as an excuse to relitigate every previous complaint in the marriage.

Just my 2¢

Listen, I don't want to derail the thread and I would rather it not get sent to the EE, but part of the problem is assuming or thinking that racism is "in the past." A thing to be remembered. It is deeper than people picking cotton in a field at the hand of a whip. Institutional, structural, foundational and systemic mechanisms built into the fabric of our society. No, I am here to tell you, as a wealthy, successful black man that it is alive here in our present and not relegated to our past.

That aside, yes, persons can make mistakes. But, part of the progress that you are seeking is for persons to call out things that play to racial tropes and stereotypes. Telling the marginalized they are sensitive or to get over it or accusing them of playing the race card defeats progress. It's an attempt to maintain the status quo or, more deliberate, to reassert past societal norms. I understand the pendulum swing back toward equality can unnecessarily injure minor or unintended actions but that is part of the price we need to pay for a better society for everyone. Lamar Jackson's skin color has nothing to do with his performance on the football field. Full stop. His skin is not a performance enhancer. That's ridiculous. It should be called out.

 

[neurotik]

Find me one successful person who believe blaming what happened in the past is the winning strategy going forward.

Remember the past, learn its lessons but dwelling on it can be an anchor to progress.

Put anyone of us in front of a microphone for hundreds of hours in a career and tell me none of you would say something offensive or stupid. REAL progress would be considering this a technical statement about optics and contrast instead of some racial dog whistle.

Reminds me of marriages where every new slight is relished as an excuse to relitigate every previous complaint in the marriage.

Just my 2¢

That blade cuts both ways. Allow this comment and ignore the complaints of those offended and chalk it up as progress because the announcer was being observational without any racist intent, and it creates a slippery slope as to what can be said on the air (and thus in public) about a person's race as long as the person claims it has no racist intent.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Find me one successful person who believe blaming what happened in the past is the winning strategy going forward.

Remember the past, learn its lessons but dwelling on it can be an anchor to progress.

Put anyone of us in front of a microphone for hundreds of hours in a career and tell me none of you would say something offensive or stupid. REAL progress would be considering this a technical statement about optics and contrast instead of some racial dog whistle.

Reminds me of marriages where every new slight is relished as an excuse to relitigate every previous complaint in the marriage.

Just my 2¢

Not sure what that has to do with what I replied

 

[bclemms]

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Richard Sherman: No reason for outrage over Tim Ryan's comments

San Francisco 49ers cornerback Richard Sherman says broadcaster Tim Ryan shouldn't be shunned for the comments he made about Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson's "dark skin" making it easier for him to hide the ball from the defense.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Dee said it right....this era we live in, is what it is.

 

[bclemms]

He didn't intend for it to be demeaning, but as a black man, I can see why it would be taken that way. I am not crying over it, and to my knowledge, no one in my community really gives a ****. It plays into a tired, old stereotype, a trope, about black quarterbacks, particularly athletic, running quarterbacks. There has to be reasons, other than what we normally attribute to successful quarterbacks, for why they are playing well. In this case, a wet ball and his skin color "added" to his success. Seriously, that is the astute observation? That is valid? It's dumb. I get he wasn't trying to be racist or insensitive and I don't think he is racist. But, his opinion on this, in light of what Lamar has been doing all year, is just ridiculous.

I never really thought about it that way. I've been very outspoken against running QB's but not because of skin color. I made the same argument in threads about Taysom Hill taking over after Brees. Running QB's don't last in the NFL because when you play like a RB your career lasts like a RB. They (speaking on running QB's) rarely ever turn into decent pocket passers, have a short shelf life and when it's time to sign them (speaking on running QB's) hit their big payday contract they are already leaving their prime. Steve McNair had a couple good years as a pocket passer before his body broke down. Steve Young managed to do it before he was a hit away from brain pudding.

The black QB's that aren't really considered runners have been few and far between. Doug Williams was amazing, for a game. Winston has all the ability in the world but he struggles with the whole professionalism thing, stupid decisions off the field and has been called out for not putting in the work other QB's do. Bridgewater looked like he could break the mold but then he had a disaster of a knee injury. Warren Moon was in the NFL for his arm, not his feet. Now he is in Canton but had a really long playing career. The examples are small. This to me is the real problem. Black QB's from an early age aren't groomed as pocket passers which is a racial issue.

“Think before you speak.”

It’s simple. His JOB he gets paid to do is to speak professionally about football to a large audience. If he was a plumber and flubbed a sink fix that flooded the client house then he would suffer repercussions.

His intent, malicious or not, is irrelevant. If someone is celebrating Fourth of July by shooting their handgun in the air and the bullets strike an animal or person, well, the intent has no bearing on the result.

As others have pointed out, the comment was inaccurate. Playaction works because of many factors and none of those are due to the color of skin or jersey or ball. This is clear to see when looking at their other Ravens game stats and many decades of playfake success across all teams and QB’s.

Finally, there is a very real and persistent stereotype of the black athlete and specifically QB viewed differently than white QB’s as “mobile” or not ideal “pocket passer.” The unspoken belief is this is due to their “difficulty in reading a defense” and the understood inference being they are less intelligent than their counterparts. This is racist bunk and should be called out every time.

Intent doesn’t matter to me and I don’t think care to spare anyone’s feelings when they are the ones being insensitive and ignorant.

Look, if a plumber worked for decades and only messed up that one sink in his career would you be comfortable ending his career and giving him an awful label?

People aren't perfect and I understand what the guy was saying. Was he implying that Lamar Jackson is only successful because his skin and football offer little contrast? No and I think we all realize that. To crucify him because others have labeled black QB's inferior to white QB's seems pretty absurd to me.

I do a lot of stuff on air, it's difficult to formulate what you want to say in real time, with a camera and mic in your face and not stumble around with words. I did live interviews with CNN and Fox News after Hurricane Dorian in the Bahamas. Both asked me the same questions and at the time I was one of the only people that had been on the ground in the Bahamas. Both asked why I thought it was so bad in Abaco. My answer was first it was a category 5 hurricane, it was slow moving and produced a tremendous storm surge. Anytime you get that combination the result will be devastation. The bigger problem is the hardest hit area is known as "the mud" where Haitian immigrants lived in shanty homes. Many people didn't leave the area because they felt the Bahamian Government was exaggerating the strength and impacts of Hurricane Dorian to round the Haitians immigrants up and deport them under the guise of evacuations. This resulted in a high number of people being in an area with 20' storm surge during a category 5 hurricanes in shanty homes.

The truth is, when I first landed back in Nassau, I showed the people at the customs desk the video of the mud area. The very first thing that came out of the woman's mouth, "Hurricane Dorian did in a day what the Bahamian Government hasn't been able to do in a decade." It was one of the worst comments I've ever heard. Would have loved to presented that out in public and wish I had it on camera but wanted to avoid the controversy and wanted search, rescue and relief to the focus of my conversation.

I got back to my room that night and had multiple comments on my Facebook page calling me a racist and all kinds of other names for referring to the area as shanty homes. They were built with pallets, scrap wood, pieces of drywall, tarps, plastic and anything else they can get there hands on. Pretty much the exact definition of a shanty. Then again, many of the same people were accusing me of being just another white person part of the plan to get rid of all the blacks in the Bahamas. Completely unaware that the Bahamian people trying to get rid of the Haitians are also black.


Then on my youtube channel had people calling me racist because most of the interviews I posted were with white people. Thought I was scared to go to the mud and speak with Haitians. People just assume all kinds of stupid sheet. The reason most of the interviews I posted were with white people was 2 fold. The interviews I did with Haitians on the first day weren't very good because most spoke little English and it's hard to have a conversation and display emotion with a language barrier. On the second day I had some very good interviews with Haitians who spoke English in the Mud and in the government building which was kind of like Abaco's dome to post Katrina New Orleans. I didn't post them on my youtube channel because I had an exclusive agreement with a news network who owned the rights to the video, not me. All this taking place while I am going on National News (something I normally refuse to do) in order to try and get people to donate because they (almost exclusively blacks) were in desperate need.

So yeah, I may be leaning too much to the broadcaster's side in this one because I've seen the shoe on the other foot.

I just don't see how someone saying the color of a ball and someone's skin are similar colors implies all black QB's are stupid. It just seems to be a really big stretch and an even bigger assumption.

 

[Treybad]

I just can't comprehend what this dude was thinking

This is getting out of hand, if the analyst was black.... there would be no mentioning of this.... wow what has this world come too.... for me that is not racisct at all....

 

[Newbian Princess]

(Edit: to bclemms) You’re a good poster and I agree with your thoughts usually but we just differ on how much “punishment” someone should receive. This plumber totally failed at his job and caused harm as a result. What consequences would be fair in this case? I’ve worked a lot in customer service and one thing that would absolutely get me fired (not even suspended) is to say the wrong thing to a customer. That is my purpose in my job. Tim Ryan’s purpose is to talk extemporaneously about football. He inexplicably said something that at best is contextually ignorant and at worst is a vile racist stereotype. I don’t see how this is an overreaction. Not to mention, there still exists systemic racism and to perpetuate it even unintentionally or indirectly is much worse than causing a flooded house.

 

[RazorOye]

But by all means let's bow down for those ....people who walk around looking for a reason to have their little feelings hurt.

this probably applies to more people in this thread than you imagine

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

As I posted the article from PFT, Sherman and Dee Ford said they both have Ryan’s back and it’s being blown way out of proportion. Being that they know him personally I’ll take their opinion over anyone else’s.

 

[Swimmer]

I just can't comprehend what this dude was thinking

Gents and Ladies - I am not considered as a discriminatory person. Was when I was teenager, but began to outgrow it playing high school sports. At the end of the game, exhaustion was still exhaustion and pain was still pain, regardless of skin tone.

I think the announcer's point may have some validity. Was this all he said? If that's all he said, it doesn't sound like we can talk about skin tone in any context in public. Is that's what is going on? thx

 

[First Time Poster]

(Edit: to bclemms) You’re a good poster and I agree with your thoughts usually but we just differ on how much “punishment” someone should receive. This plumber totally failed at his job and caused harm as a result. What consequences would be fair in this case? I’ve worked a lot in customer service and one thing that would absolutely get me fired (not even suspended) is to say the wrong thing to a customer. That is my purpose in my job. Tim Ryan’s purpose is to talk extemporaneously about football. He inexplicably said something that at best is contextually ignorant and at worst is a vile racist stereotype. I don’t see how this is an overreaction. Not to mention, there still exists systemic racism and to perpetuate it even unintentionally or indirectly is much worse than causing a flooded house.

I just want to tack onto this, bclemms, because I share NP's admiration for you as a poster. You said this:

Warren Moon was in the NFL for his arm, not his feet.

You know, Moon is illustrative, perhaps the trailblazer, of the black quarterback's journey from stereotype to success. Despite his stellar collegiate career, Moon went undrafted by the NFL. Do you know why?

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

In Never Give Up on Your Dream: My Journey, Moon chronicles the racism he encountered. Most black players of his generation, and definitely those who came before Moon, could tell similar disheartening stories. Repeatedly pushed to move to another position by coaches who assumed he lacked the smarts to play quarterback, Moon, believing he had the chops to lead, never gave up.

“In football, the ‘thinking’ positions down the middle — quarterback, center, [inside] linebacker — were the ones that we weren’t allowed to play.

Despite the fact that there were a lot of African-Americans playing in the National Football League in the ’50s, ’60s and ’70s, there was a stereotype that we weren’t capable of succeeding at certain positions. If you played those positions in college and you got drafted, you knew you were probably going to get moved in the NFL. Supposedly, we weren’t smart enough or had the leadership qualities or whatever it took. At every position, for African-Americans, conquering that myth at quarterback was so important.”


So, in reality, it took Moon going to the CFL and "proving" he could play quarterback before the NFL took him "for his arm." 5 straight Grey Cup championships and 2 Grey Cup MVPs along with 21 thousand yards and 144 touchdowns before the NFL considered him worthy of playing the position. Moon's CFL and NFL yard and touchdown totals? 70,553 yards and 435 touchdowns. Better career numbers than Dan Marino. Only behind the quartet of Manning, Brady, Brees and Favre.

Statistically, probably the 5th best QB of all time but spent the first six years of his career playing in Canada fighting stereotypes about black men. And he was a "pocket passer" to boot. Imagine the battle for guys who weren't quite as gifted throwing but were still capable of playing the position. I know it is hard to fathom for some but these tropes didn't die overnight. They are still here, still with us, and vigilance is required, by all of us, if we want to truly make them "the past."

 

[First Time Poster]

As I posted the article from PFT, Sherman and Dee Ford said they both have Ryan’s back and it’s being blown way out of proportion. Being that they know him personally I’ll take their opinion over anyone else’s.

Is Jerry Jones opinion of Ezekiel Elliot the only one that matters? It's a short sighted take Hump. Besides, what seems to be blown out of proportion is the sentiment that Ryan is somehow "under attack." He said something dumb, persons have explained why, the 49ers chose to suspend him over it, the sun still rose and set today. No one, at least no one sensible, that I have seen, is calling him a Klansman. Persons have pushed back on his rhetoric and I have attempted to explain why. Why the zero sum game? We can disagree and call his take dumb and still not think he is racist or meant malice. I do. Why does it have to be "he did nothing wrong" or "he's racist!" Nuance is still a thing.