Andy Dalton is PFF’s 2nd highest graded passer this season (1 Viewer)

[reason2believe]

Dalton? Decent? At best, yeah. Not good enough at all. He does the small things that hurt your chances of winning. And he doesn’t do the positive, clutch things to win.

 

[reason2believe]

It’s quite amazing to see some folks back Dalton like he is Brees or that he has been with the Saints a long time.

Dalton is who he is. He is a backup QB who changes teams every year. He isn’t meant to start for long periods of time, or he gets exposed. He is good as an underdog when there are no expectations.

 

[Alan12]

And I actually think he should have checked down on 3rd given the coverage. Dalton may have been hammered for it, but it’s a bad situation where the best you can do is pick up a few yards. Four verticals has a very low chance of success against cover 4 even with the perfect throw. I’m not going to blame Taysom for a drop that most of the league would have made, and that’s not including the receivers that would have made a business decision.

Second time I see you post that in this thread, that seam to Taysom on 3rd down wasn’t into Cover 4.

Bucs were indeed showing 2-high presnap but after the snap SS #26 Logan Ryan settled down and FS #22 Keanu Neal rolled over the top into the middle third. If it was Cover 4 then SS Ryan is grossly out of his zone if he’s supposed to be in the middle-right quarter.

Here’s a crudely done diagram right after Dalton released the ball…


TL;DR: it was Cover 3, and 4 Verticals targeting the seam to the FS side is the perfect call against a Cover 3 shell and was almost executed to perfection.

 

[Rouxble]

The Bucs beat us with three seconds left because Brady bled the clock and they didn’t use their timeouts.

And if you really think Drew would have checked down there, I question whether you actually watched Drew play, lol.

Fair point on the clock, although they had to either let the clock run to the 2min warning or take their last timeout. And they still needed to get additional yards.

And Drew doesn’t make that throw. I checked to see, on any plays 3rd and 16+ where we had less than a 2 score lead with 10 minutes to play:

3rd and 17 - 15yd pass to Patten
3rd and 21 - 7yd pass to Devery
3rd and 24 - incomplete pass to Devery
3rd and 20 - 42yd TD to Stills
3rd and 15 - 14yd pass to Snead
3rd and 21 - 5 yard pass to Thomas
3rd and 22 - 7yd pass to Ginn

Short of the sticks 5 out of 7 times.

 

[Saint Spud]

Fair point on the clock, although they had to either let the clock run to the 2min warning or take their last timeout. And they still needed to get additional yards.

And Drew doesn’t make that throw. I checked to see, on any plays 3rd and 16+ where we had less than a 2 score lead with 10 minutes to play:

3rd and 17 - 15yd pass to Patten
3rd and 21 - 7yd pass to Devery
3rd and 24 - incomplete pass to Devery
3rd and 20 - 42yd TD to Stills
3rd and 15 - 14yd pass to Snead
3rd and 21 - 5 yard pass to Thomas
3rd and 22 - 7yd pass to Ginn

Short of the sticks 5 out of 7 times.

You pulled seven plays. Without any knowledge of what the playcall was or what the game situation was beyond score and time.

That’s exactly the problem with people overcriticizing Dalton. They ignore details. It’s kinda crazy. But at this point, it feels like everyone’s opinion is set, regardless of what data are presented.

 

[Saint Spud]

Second time I see you post that in this thread, that seam to Taysom on 3rd down wasn’t into Cover 4.

Bucs were indeed showing 2-high presnap but after the snap SS #26 Logan Ryan settled down and FS #22 Keanu Neal rolled over the top into the middle third. If it was Cover 4 then SS Ryan is grossly out of his zone if he’s supposed to be in the middle-right quarter.

Here’s a crudely done diagram right after Dalton released the ball…


TL;DR: it was Cover 3, and 4 Verticals targeting the seam to the FS side is the perfect call against a Cover 3 shell and was almost executed to perfection.

Thank you for this.

 

[Rouxble]

Here’s a crudely done diagram right after Dalton released the ball…


TL;DR: it was Cover 3, and 4 Verticals targeting the seam to the FS side is the perfect call against a Cover 3 shell and was almost executed to perfection.

Your crude diagrams are way better than mine, and it looks like my memory failed me because Ryan definitely pauses and slides forward. I blame the cold.

I still don’t like the throw for the game situation, and don’t see why we let it rip there but not on second down. Opportunity was better than I remembered here but still not good with whoever catches the ball getting a hat put on the ball.

 

[Saint Spud]

Your crude diagrams are way better than mine, and it looks like my memory failed me because Ryan definitely pauses and slides forward. I blame the cold.

I still don’t like the throw for the game situation, and don’t see why we let it rip there but not on second down. Opportunity was better than I remembered here but still not good with whoever catches the ball getting a hat put on the ball.

The dude threw a dime in a perfect spot to win the game. If he checks it down, Bucs just use a timeout and everything is the same.

I honestly don’t know what more people want.

 

[Rouxble]

You pulled seven plays. Without any knowledge of what the playcall was or what the game situation was beyond score and time.

That’s exactly the problem with people criticizing Dalton. They ignore details. It’s kinda crazy. But at this point, it feels like everyone’s opinion is set, regardless of what data are presented.

That’s the only plays where it occurred, it’s not my fault Brees didn’t get into that situation lol.

I don’t ignore details with Dalton, I thought he played very well in the first half against the Falcons, and then he started being hesitant on similar throws in the second. Practically every throw in the first half was on the money, with the ball coming out of his hands before the receiver was even looking for the ball.

 

[Taker597]

The dude threw a dime in a perfect spot to win the game. If he checks it down, Bucs just use a timeout and everything is the same.

I honestly don’t know what more people want.

That's not entirely true. A 10 yard check down is still 10 yards of field position.


Considering the final TD was scored with 3 seconds on the clock. Every decision matters in the spectrum of that disaster.

 

[Rouxble]

The dude threw a dime in a perfect spot to win the game. If he checks it down, Bucs just use a timeout and everything is the same.

I honestly don’t know what more people want.

That pass is still low percentage with the depth of the under coverage, he had to high point the throw, leaving Hill in a place to get rocked. Technically a great throw getting over the under coverage, strategically a bad throw because Hill had to maintain control with two defenders in over coverage crashing on him. I don’t love it.

 

[Saint Spud]

That’s the only plays where it occurred, it’s not my fault Brees didn’t get into that situation lol.

I don’t ignore details with Dalton, I thought he played very well in the first half against the Falcons, and then he started being hesitant on similar throws in the second. Practically every throw in the first half was on the money, with the ball coming out of his hands before the receiver was even looking for the ball.

We only had the ball four times in the second half. The first was a perfectly executed TD drive. The second Drive he only dropped back once and was sacked. Third Drive was a bad 3 & out. Fourth was all runs.

Other than the third drive…not sure what more he could’ve done.

 

[Saint Spud]

That's not entirely true. A 10 yard check down is still 10 yards of field position.


Considering the final TD was scored with 3 seconds on the clock. Every decision matters in the spectrum of that disaster.

It was scored with 3 seconds because the Bucs didn’t use time outs with any urgency since they were actually trying to bleed the clock and keep us from getting it back.

And throwing a checkdown because you want ten years of field position against Tom Brady instead of going for the win is exactly the type of loser mentality that DA has been hammered for all year.

 

[Taker597]

It was scored with 3 seconds because the Bucs didn’t use time outs with any urgency since they were actually trying to bleed the clock and keep us from getting it back.

And throwing a checkdown because you want ten years of field position against Tom Brady instead of going for the win is exactly the type of loser mentality that DA has been hammered for all year.

It was 3rd and 17 on our own 18.

Set up by a brain dead play.

If Andy Dalton could check down for even a 15 or 16 yard gain. It forces a time out. It changes the complexion of a lot of things.

We only had the ball four times in the second half. The first was a perfectly executed TD drive. The second Drive he only dropped back once and was sacked. Third Drive was a bad 3 & out. Fourth was all runs.

Other than the third drive…not sure what more he could’ve done.

We had the ball 5 times in the 2nd half plus a redundant 6th time.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

I actually don't have a problem w/ the throw, my problem is with the intended target. Taysom Hill is a QB, he doesn't have the experience catching a ball in traffic while taking a hit. That play needed to be Landry in that position. Our 4 WRs should've been Olave, Landry, Callaway or Shaheed, and Johnson