Andy Dalton is PFF’s 2nd highest graded passer this season (2 Viewers)

[Rouxble]

Is he playing bad or horrible. I don't think so. And he isn't the reason why we win or lose either. But that's just my opinion.

Again, the disagreement is whether Dalton should take a seat for the starter. The fact that “he isn’t playing bad or horrible” is not a good criteria to keep the backup on the field. Backups play while starters are out, then take a seat when they can play.

 

[Saint Spud]

Like air yards?
Any stats regarding TDs, INTs, yards per game, 1st downs?

The air yards stat was in response to him checking down.

But yes, QB rating is an objective metric. He’s 7th in the NFL.

NFL Qb Rating Leaders 2022 | StatMuse

Tua Tagovailoa had the best passer rating in 2022, with a 105.5 rating.

www.statmuse.com

 

[Saint Spud]

Again, the disagreement is whether Dalton should take a seat for the starter. The fact that “he isn’t playing bad or horrible” is not a good criteria to keep the backup on the field. Backups play while starters are out, then take a seat when they can play.

That’s not what the discussion is.

I agree we should play Winston to evaluate him. Because this season is lost.

If we were playing for the division title at this point, you play Dalton because he’s our best option under current circumstances. And frankly, he’s been better than 1/3 to 1/2 of the starters around the league to this point. QBs he’s been better than:

Mac
Anyone from Indy
Anyone from the Jets
Anyone from the Texans
Anyone from Atlanta
Anyone from Carolina
Tannehill
Russ
Anyone from the Rams
Anyone from Cleveland
Anyone from Pittsburgh
Anyone from Washington

And a few others are debatable.

No one is saying he’s our franchise QB. But he’s been average. Not bad. Not terrible.

 

[Elvis]

Nevermind PFF, lets look at Pro Football Reference. Purely stats, no subjectivity.

2022 NFL Passing | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2022 NFL Passing Stats and more on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

Dalton is:
10th in completion %
8th in TD % (Percentage of Touchdowns Thrown when Attempting to Pass)
20th in INT % (Percentage of Times Intercepted when Attempting to Pass)
7th in Passer Rating
7th in Yards gained per pass attempt

These are remarkable stats coming from a backup QB making $3 million this season who is in his first season in the system. Is he the 2nd best QB in the league? No, but he's over performing his contract and has been the steadiest all around QB that we've had, even if he's boring to watch, since Drew retired.

 

[thatswhaticalllagnap]

It's funny how you guys throw around the phrase "backup quarterback." Andy Dalton isn't really a backup quarterback. He's thrown for well over 30,000 yards. He's been to a few Pro Bowls. Trevor Siemian "is a good backup." Andy Dalton "is an old starter." There is a difference!
Jameis Winston is "a young starter turned young backup." That's not as promising a career trajectory as being someone who started for almost a decade before becoming a backup. And notice he only backs up in situations where he ends up playing a lot anyway. Don't you think he came to the Saints because he thought he could beat out Jameis in training camp, or otherwise replace him in the season? Which he has done?
And you crack me up the way you analyze Dalton's game tape to find open receivers he missed. Do you use the same fine-tooth comb when analyzing the 31 other starting QBs in the league? Do you have any idea how often good QBs miss open receivers, or are you only doing this to Andy Dalton because you think he is nothing but a backup?
How many backups can play with the poise and consistency and general above-averageness that Dalton has played with all season long?

 

[Rouxble]

That’s not what the discussion is.

I agree we should play Winston to evaluate him. Because this season is lost.

If we were playing for the division title at this point, you play Dalton because he’s our best option under current circumstances. And frankly, he’s been better than 1/3 to 1/2 of the starters around the league to this point. QBs he’s been better than:

Mac
Anyone from Indy
Anyone from the Jets
Anyone from the Texans
Anyone from Atlanta
Anyone from Carolina
Tannehill
Russ
Anyone from the Rams
Anyone from Cleveland
Anyone from Pittsburgh
Anyone from Washington

And a few others are debatable.

No one is saying he’s our franchise QB. But he’s been average. Not bad. Not terrible.

He’s average over the course of a game, but when it counts, he’s bad. On 3rd down, in the 4th quarter, and when it comes to generating big plays. Being bad in those categories is typical of all backups. They need everything else to go perfect for them to win.

Also, he’s not the first backup QB ever to play better than the bottom third of the league. Ryan Fitzpatrick often played middle of the road football, but no team that started him ever went anywhere.

 

[Saint Spud]

He’s average over the course of a game, but when it counts, he’s bad. On 3rd down, in the 4th quarter, and when it comes to generating big plays. Being bad in those categories is typical of all backups. They need everything else to go perfect for them to win.

Also, he’s not the first backup QB ever to play better than the bottom third of the league. Ryan Fitzpatrick often played middle of the road football, but no team that started him ever went anywhere.

You mean like when he hit Taysom in the hands on the third in long in Tampa? How about in San Francisco in the EZ?

People see what they want to see.

 

[Rouxble]

The air yards stat was in response to him checking down.

But yes, QB rating is an objective metric. He’s 7th in the NFL.

NFL Qb Rating Leaders 2022 | StatMuse

Tua Tagovailoa had the best passer rating in 2022, with a 105.5 rating.

www.statmuse.com

QB rating was invented in 1972, when only one QB achieved a 60% completion rating and no one had more than 216 yards/game. The game has evolved tremendously since then, I don’t think that stat has much relevance anymore.

 

[Rouxble]

You mean like when he hit Taysom in the hands on the third in long in Tampa? How about in San Francisco in the EZ?

People see what they want to see.

LOL, it doesn’t matter how many times it is pointed out that 18 teams drop more passes per attempt, many of them with very good offenses and winning records, any time Dalton gets a hint of criticism the cherry picking starts.

The Taysom Hill ball would be dropped by most of the league, you don’t throw the seam into cover 4. And on the play before that, Dalton could have hit Hill on an out route for the first, but he sat like a statue and took the sack. We ended up in that 3rd and long situation because of him. He could definitely have made that throw on 2nd, he made it several times against the Falcons.

 

[Rouxble]

<Insert Jim Mora meme here>

This site has a list of the players that have dropped the most passes, 5 and up. There isn't a single Saint listed. What's interesting is that Kansas City has 2 players listed (even the one with the most drops), the Bills have 2, Miami has 2.... SF, Dal, NYG, LAC, are in there... all of those teams have winning records... even the Jets are there and they are 7-7.

This post is one of many overlooked that tried to add context to our drops that are being used as context for Dalton’s performance.

 

[Saint Spud]

LOL, it doesn’t matter how many times it is pointed out that 18 teams drop more passes per attempt, many of them with very good offenses and winning records, any time Dalton gets a hint of criticism the cherry picking starts.

The Taysom Hill ball would be dropped by most of the league, you don’t throw the seam into cover 4. And on the play before that, Dalton could have hit Hill on an out route for the first, but he sat like a statue and took the sack. We ended up in that 3rd and long situation because of him. He could definitely have made that throw on 2nd, he made it several times against the Falcons.

18 teams. So again, close to the middle. And I was pointing out specific instances during the specific situations you described.

Incorrect on the play before the seam to Taysom. That’s been broken down over and over.

And on the seam to Taysom, it was a perfect throw in a perfect spot. If he had thrown anywhere else, people would be hammering him for checking down.

 

[Saint Spud]

<Insert Jim Mora meme here>

This site has a list of the players that have dropped the most passes, 5 and up. There isn't a single Saint listed. What's interesting is that Kansas City has 2 players listed (even the one with the most drops), the Bills have 2, Miami has 2.... SF, Dal, NYG, LAC, are in there... all of those teams have winning records... even the Jets are there and they are 7-7.

Because we don’t have playmakers good enough to get that many targets, lol.

Look at the names on that list! Kelce, Gabe Davis, Diggs, Ekeler, Chase Waddle.

Come on, man!!

 

[Rouxble]

18 teams. So again, close to the middle. And I was pointing out specific instances during the specific situations you described.

Incorrect on the play before the seam to Taysom. That’s been broken down over and over.

And on the seam to Taysom, it was a perfect throw in a perfect spot. If he had thrown anywhere else, people would be hammering him for checking down.

With middle of the pack drop rate, we have a middle of the pack offense. Other teams with more drops, and have top five offenses in the league. So the drops can’t be the reason why we’re underperforming.

There’s no way that taking a seven yard sack was our best option on 2nd down.

And I actually think he should have checked down on 3rd given the coverage. Dalton may have been hammered for it, but it’s a bad situation where the best you can do is pick up a few yards. Four verticals has a very low chance of success against cover 4 even with the perfect throw. I’m not going to blame Taysom for a drop that most of the league would have made, and that’s not including the receivers that would have made a business decision.

 

[Rouxble]

Because we don’t have playmakers good enough to get that many targets, lol.

Look at the names on that list! Kelce, Gabe Davis, Diggs, Ekeler, Chase Waddle.

Come on, man!!

The point is that good players drop passes, but Taysom is getting criticism for dropping a pass that should never have been thrown. Again, other teams drop more passes per attempt, with some of those drops by good players, and they tremendously outperform our offense and our WL record.

 

[Saint Spud]

With middle of the pack drop rate, we have a middle of the pack offense. Other teams with more drops, and have top five offenses in the league. So the drops can’t be the reason why we’re underperforming.

There’s no way that taking a seven yard sack was our best option on 2nd down.

And I actually think he should have checked down on 3rd given the coverage. Dalton may have been hammered for it, but it’s a bad situation where the best you can do is pick up a few yards. Four verticals has a very low chance of success against cover 4 even with the perfect throw. I’m not going to blame Taysom for a drop that most of the league would have made, and that’s not including the receivers that would have made a business decision.

He didn’t call the 4 verts play. Blame Pete. He made the best throw he could.

I’m not “blaming” Taysom. But I’m certainly not “blaming” Dalton for throwing an absolute Dime that Drew used to throw in those situations.

Again, rewatch the 2nd down play. Between the pressure and personnel, It was doomed. And again, it doesn’t matter if the catch is made on 3rd down.

Drops CAN be a reason why we’re underperforming. So can poor OL play. So can poor playcalling. And a disappointing running game. It all matters. Dalton hasn’t been perfect. But he’s also been well below everything I mentioned on the “blame” list. And, thankfully, plenty of analytics are proving that point.