Are you willing to get the Covid vaccine when offered? (10 Viewers)

[Loco Hornet Fan]

Wow, forgot about the covid vaccine. All i know, is that it appears to being pushed away. Like, "ok, everyone just forget about it, forget it was ever a topic". I was threatened with my job if I didn't get it. So, I got it regretfully. I got covid, pretty bad a month later. My kids got it, which I so regret them getting it. They wanted to travel with their cousins, so they chose to get it. Never even got checked for their card at the airport. They were 18 and 16 at the time.
All I know is what I see. It's never talked about, even in the medical field. Like, nothing is said about it anymore. Flu vaccines are still forced upon us. But covid?? not a word about it. Not a peep. Dr Fauci was pardoned, and lies were told about the vaccine and its effectiveness. 100%. Why anyone would still stand up for this vaccine is beyond me. It's a non topic in the medical field now. Almost like "let's just forget this thing ever happened". That's the vibe i get.

I was just at a drug store the other day and they had signs for variety of shot appointments you could make through their app (flu and covid were on the list).

Nothing was being forced upon anyone.

 

[cpg]

I think it's a bit more complex than that, since the impact of a vaccine in terms of spread and further mutation of a virus depends not only on the nature of the vaccine, but also the nature of the virus.

So, here, as you say we obviously had mutations emerging before vaccination. Can't blame vaccination for those, OK. But in terms of subsequent immune pressure, we'd have had that regardless of vaccination, because while a significant number of people were dying, people were mostly surviving and retaining some immunity, which would have favoured mutations that escaped that regardless of whether they had that immunity though infection or vaccination.

So you could, as you do, suggest that vaccination influenced later variants, but it's more of a stretch to suggest that, as is being argued, virologists claimed it "would proliferate variants and make it impossible to target" (incidentally, if anyone has a citation for that, would like to see it; had a quick look, couldn't find anything, maybe the 'censorship' was just that good...). Variants would have been developing regardless. And there are multiple factors involved; contrarily, by somewhat reducing transmission (the vaccines are not sterilising, but were shown to reduce the risk of infection particularly in the weeks after vaccination, which necessarily reduces transmission, as you can't transmit something if you're not infected with it), vaccination helped to reduce the rate of transmission and reduced the rate of opportunities for mutation accordingly.

The only sense in which that argument could really be made is of the use of vaccination as an alternative to total lockdown to target elimination, as in New Zealand, for example. But that wasn't happening generally.

There are other instances where vaccination might be counter-productive in that sense; for example, if you have a highly lethal virus that normally kills its host rapidly with its spread being limited accordingly, and you have a vaccine that protects the host, but doesn't prevent infection and transmission, vaccination could lead to significantly greater spread and transmission and increase opportunities for mutation. But that's not really applicable here.

So ultimately, the realistic scenarios here were Covid spreading with or without vaccination; we'd have continued to have immune-escaping variants in both scenarios, but a lot more dead people in the latter.

I don't think it's a stretch. It's biologically reasonable and widely acknowledged.

"as is being argued, virologists claimed it "would proliferate variants and make it impossible to target" (incidentally, if anyone has a citation for that, would like to see it; had a quick look, couldn't find anything, maybe the 'censorship' was just that good...)."

The above quote was not an assertion I made anywhere in my original post. So I'm not sure why it's being presented as my argument. My point was simply that the CDC can not make the broad assumption that the vaccine "didn't cause" variants because they have absolutely no way of controlling for the millions of variables it would require to test for that, and doing so is disingenuous on their part. That's literally it.

Yes, antigenic drift is what you are describing. And it happens with vaccines as well as natural mutations. But nothing I stated is incongruent with anything you've posted. I'm genuinely not sure how it's “more complex,” as you mentioned.

It is also possible that immune imprinting from repeated boosting can avert immune response away from newer variants. But maybe that's best left for another conversation.

Also, I think your final paragraph is responding to a point I didn’t actually make. Just to clarify, I have no issue with the vaccine. I literally administer them.

 

[Arathrael]

I don't think it's a stretch. It's biologically reasonable and widely acknowledged.

"as is being argued, virologists claimed it "would proliferate variants and make it impossible to target" (incidentally, if anyone has a citation for that, would like to see it; had a quick look, couldn't find anything, maybe the 'censorship' was just that good...)."

The above quote was not an assertion I made anywhere in my original post. So I'm not sure why it's being presented as my argument. My point was simply that the CDC can not make the broad assumption that the vaccine "didn't cause" variants because they have absolutely no way of controlling for the millions of variables it would require to test for that, and doing so is disingenuous on their part. That's literally it.

Yes, antigenic drift is what you are describing. And it happens with vaccines as well as natural mutations. But nothing I stated is incongruent with anything you've posted. I'm genuinely not sure how it's “more complex,” as you mentioned.

It is also possible that immune imprinting from repeated boosting can avert immune response away from newer variants. But maybe that's best left for another conversation.

Also, I think your final paragraph is responding to a point I didn’t actually make. Just to clarify, I have no issue with the vaccine. I literally administer them.

To be clear, I was responding to your post in the wider context in the thread in which that argument was made, which I thought was reasonably clear given that the argument is in a different post. Hence why I said "as is being argued" not "as you said".

I don't think your post is a stretch - maybe "Later variants and subvariants almost certainly emerged as a result of immune pressure influenced by the vaccine" is overstating it a bit given the role of widespread infection-acquired immunity, as well as the possible factor of immunocompromised hosts in particular as a source of significant mutations - but I think taking your post to support the notion that vaccination would "proliferate variants and make it impossible to target" is a stretch.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

[cpg]

To be clear, I was responding to your post in the wider context in the thread in which that argument was made, which I thought was reasonably clear given that the argument is in a different post. Hence why I said "as is being argued" not "as you said".

I don't think your post is a stretch - maybe "Later variants and subvariants almost certainly emerged as a result of immune pressure influenced by the vaccine" is overstating it a bit given the role of widespread infection-acquired immunity, as well as the possible factor of immunocompromised hosts in particular as a source of significant mutations - but I think taking your post to support the notion that vaccination would "proliferate variants and make it impossible to target" is a stretch.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Okay, I apologize if I came across as overly defensive.

My point is that selective pressure influences mutations. Whether it is from vaccines or increased resistance from evolving immune responses is irrelevant. The virus doesn’t care if it’s a vaccine that wiping it out, or if immune systems have adjusted. It’s only the mutations that survive. Thus, the CDC making a claim that vaccines didn’t cause variants is a claim they can only make because there is no one that can categorically refute it. Of course, they can’t really support it either.

We seem to mostly agree.

 

[Eeyore]

A whooping cough epidemic?

Isn’t that an old timey disease?

What’s next? Consumption? Scurvy?

Whooping cough cases climb nationally, two infants die in Louisiana

Experts emphasize vaccination to combat rising cases and waning immunity.

www.ketv.com

 

[cpg]

A whooping cough epidemic?

Isn’t that an old timey disease?

What’s next? Consumption? Scurvy?

I know this was meant to be a joke, but there's actually a shocking amount of people walking around with clinical grade scurvy.

 

[bigdaddysaints]

i love the herd immunity argument..
yes, it does work, but it comes with a lot of death and lasting side effects that are just unnecessary. it's just dumb to suggest it's better than vaccines and is just uneducated and denying science.
if herd immunity works so great, then why did the chicken pox hang around so long, majority of the people i knew had it as a child, but since the vaccine, i didn't know anyone who has gotten it. and i have 2 children, so yes i know plenty of people with kids .

 

[Poppy]

This is total horse ****!

"A department spokesperson confirmed Louisiana Surgeon General Ralph Abraham had ordered his staff to stop engaging in media campaigns and community health fairs to encourage vaccinations, even as the state has experienced a surge in influenza."

Louisiana to end mass vaccine promotion, state's top health official says

The Louisiana Department of Health “will no longer promote mass vaccination.” That's according to a Thursday memo written by the state’s top health official and obtained by The Associated Press.

apnews.com

No need to even address the rest of your post.

What I mean by "forced" is, if you choose not to take it, you have to have medical, religious or allergy to it, in order not to take it and you have to provide documentation. You cannot just say, "nah, I dont want it" and move on. And, you are required to wear a mask if you aren't flu vaccinated. So maybe when I said forced, that wasn't the proper thing to say. What I meant was, sure, you can choose not to take it, but we are gonna make it difficult for you if you choose not to. Covid is not a required vaccination anymore at work. Like I said, it's a non issue as far as a work vaccination. But the flu is required.

 

[Poppy]

I was just at a drug store the other day and they had signs for variety of shot appointments you could make through their app (flu and covid were on the list).

Nothing was being forced upon anyone.

I'm speaking of working in the medical field. It was required at one time, and now, it is not spoken about.

 

[Poppy]

This is total horse ****!

"A department spokesperson confirmed Louisiana Surgeon General Ralph Abraham had ordered his staff to stop engaging in media campaigns and community health fairs to encourage vaccinations, even as the state has experienced a surge in influenza."

Louisiana to end mass vaccine promotion, state's top health official says

The Louisiana Department of Health “will no longer promote mass vaccination.” That's according to a Thursday memo written by the state’s top health official and obtained by The Associated Press.

apnews.com

No need to even address the rest of your post.

It isn't BS. It is required to have a flu vaccine, if you don't get it, you have to provide documentation as to why, and you must wear a mask at work if you dont get it. The employer requires it. Period

 

[Poppy]

I have never heard of the flu vaccine being forced on people.

Also, the covid vaccine is still being updated and is readily available if you are paying attention. It's not a vibe.

Again, it is forced upon us at work, to get the flu vaccine, period. In the fall, i get countless emails, "we see that you haven't received your flu vaccine. report to employee health to receive it before December....."

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

I'm speaking of working in the medical field. It was required at one time, and now, it is not spoken about.

Well that’s not how the post I responded to was written.

 

[Poppy]

Well that’s not how the post I responded to was written.

You are correct. I should have been more clear in the post.

 

[Poppy]

You still doing this?

How so?

That's simply not true. People are still getting Covid.

Boo hoo. You show a fundamental misunderstanding of what the point of the vaccine is. That you're still doing this means there is nothing anyone can say to change your perspective. Your reliance on anecdotal experience is, well, anecdotal.

Anecdote is still anecdotal.

I dunno, i was talking to my daughter a few days ago and she was telling me they're still dealing with cases that come in at the hospital where she works.

You need to get out more then.

Thats a blatant lie.



You can think what you want. Doesnt mean you're right.

Says the guy who thinks an anecdotal experience makes him an expert.

Maybe get out more?

Yes, people are still getting covid. I was speaking strictly to vaccine administration and that it is not talked about as being a required vaccination anymore. Flu is required. Get out more. Lol. why are you so angry about my perspective on this. I haven't lied about anything. And, i never said i was right about anything. Only what I see with my eyes. My perspective can be changed. But not by cherry picked links to articles on the internet. Maybe you're the one that could use a little perspective. I mean, you're the one that's convinced you're right.