NFL Draft Ashton Jeanty or Tyler Warren? (37 Viewers)

[Elvis]

I get the point. Yet, nobody here actually knows how the Saints’ new HC has players ranked on his board, which will obviously be a major impact on how the rest of the leadership and scouting dept. assess players for the draft and FA.

If they see Jeanty BPA and overwhelmingly worth pick 1.9 (I think they do), then they should dance to the podium. If it’s someone else, then cool.

Of course. Nobody will ever know what they think about anybody on the board except for the guys they end up picking. I was just stating my preference, not saying what the team would do.

 

[livefromDC]

You're missing the point, which is to build the entire team strategically and not get enamored by the potential of a single player when so many positions on the team need help. There is much better value for running backs later in the draft, but less so at other positions. And RB is our one position of strength.

2008 Pro Bowl - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't see Reggie on there. We had no Pro Bowl players in 2008.

And this isn't a hill I'm going to die on because Jeanty would be entertaining and the game IS about entertainment. I just think the RB position can be filled in a lot of different rounds if we wanted one this year and other positions get much thinner after the 1st round. If you're trying to build your team you have to prioritize not just players, but also positions where value is hard to find later.

This isn't Madden. You don't get game changing players when you want them, you get them when they become available.

The Saints have been trying to build the trenches and develop the team the right way on DL and OL since they drafted Davenport. Does anyone really think they weren't trying to do it the right way when they drafted McCoy, Ruiz, Penning, Davenport, Payton Turner, and Foskey? That's a LOT of 1st and 2nd round draft capital spent to now TODAY still be having the conversation about building the right way.

And I'm willing to die on this hill, you don't make draft decisions based on anything except the value of the players in front of you. In 2017, the Chiefs could have done what many experts had predicted and helped their defense because they "needed" help on defense and had Alex Smith has a solid starter, but they took the best player on the board at a position they had a starter. The draft is where you grab talent when you can.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706180-nfl-draft-2017-round-1-grades-for-every-pick

 

[Snakehead]

I’d say nope. Exactly how many stellar SEC RBs are rocking it in the NFL currently? So the whole level of competition thing goes out the window. I mean different positions but Terron Armstead, would you question his level of competition. How about Eric Dickerson when he went to SMU, Ladanian Tomlinson at TCU, Jerry Rice at Miss Valley???

I remember when people were wondering if Randy Moss would translate to the NFL.

 

[livefromDC]

It's not a consistent comparison, I compared him once. And it's not about Jeanty as a player. It's about positional value that I don't think RB has enough of to get one at 9. That's a luxury pick for when you team is good and you trade up because you need a RB more than you need draft picks. We're not that team.

EDIT: Here is an article talking about positional value. NFL teams take less RBs and TEs less than any other positions in the first round. It's not just me that feels that way, NFL GMs feel that way too.

RBs seen as game changing though are still going extremely high. That has not changed. McCaffrey, Barkley, and Robinson for example. When the RB grades as one of the best 8 players in the draft, they're going extremely high. That hasn't changed.

But for the sake of using known values, let's use Bush and several 1st round draft pick Saints in a thought experiment. The key is using players for which we have a good feel for their careers.

Reggie Bush
Marcus Davenport
Andrus Peat
Sheldon Rankins
Chris Olave

Of this group of players picked around the top to middle of the draft, who are you using your first round pick on in 2025? Now using this same group does your answer change if Reggie Bush is replaced by Ladainain Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson? I know my answers, and you're verifiablely insane if your answer doesn't change to the second question.

 

[Elvis]

RBs seen as game though are still going extremely high. That has not changed. McCaffrey, Barkley, and Robinson for example. When the RB grades as one of the best 8 players in the draft, they're going extremely high. That hasn't changed.

But for the sake of using known values, let's use Bush and several 1st round draft pick Saints in a thought experiment. The key is using players for which he a good feel for their careers.

Reggie Bush
Marcus Davenport
Andrus Peat
Sheldon Rankins
Chris Olave

Of this group of players picked around the top to middle of the draft, who are you using your first round pick on in 2025? Now using this same group does answer change if Reggie Bush is replaced by Ladainain Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson? I know my answers, and you're verifiablely insane if your answer doesn't change to the second question.

Nah, I don't want to play your hypothetical hindsight games. My position is that there are positions that are worthy of a top 10 pick and RB isn't one of them. Maybe a late 1st. You disagree, I'm good with that. Agree to disagree.

 

[DSnfla]

I’d say nope. Exactly how many stellar SEC RBs are rocking it in the NFL currently? So the whole level of competition thing goes out the window. I mean different positions but Terron Armstead, would you question his level of competition. How about Eric Dickerson when he went to SMU, Ladanian Tomlinson at TCU, Jerry Rice at Miss Valley???

Well let's see
D Henry =ALA
B Robinson-TX
J Jacobs =ALA
N Harris =ALA
D Swift-GA
J Gibbs= ALA
Now while not the SEC these guys did play against SEC level competition
S Barkley= Penn ST
K Williams - ND
J Taylor = Wis.
In fact the only guy in the top 10-12 in rushing that played against lesser competition is Pollard

The guys you mentioned all have been retired for decades. And Armstead didn't play against a whole D just a player

 

[No2DC]

RBs seen as game though are still going extremely high. That has not changed. McCaffrey, Barkley, and Robinson for example. When the RB grades as one of the best 8 players in the draft, they're going extremely high. That hasn't changed.

But for the sake of using known values, let's use Bush and several 1st round draft pick Saints in a thought experiment. The key is using players for which he a good feel for their careers.

Reggie Bush
Marcus Davenport
Andrus Peat
Sheldon Rankins
Chris Olave

Of this group of players picked around the top to middle of the draft, who are you using your first round pick on in 2025? Now using this same group does answer change if Reggie Bush is replaced by Ladainain Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson? I know my answers, and you're verifiablely insane if your answer doesn't change to the second question.

You dropped the mike on that one

 

[JackDiesel]

It's not a consistent comparison, I compared him once. And it's not about Jeanty as a player. It's about positional value that I don't think RB has enough of to get one at 9. That's a luxury pick for when you team is good and you trade up because you need a RB more than you need draft picks. We're not that team.

EDIT: Here is an article talking about positional value. NFL teams take less RBs and TEs less than any other positions in the first round. It's not just me that feels that way, NFL GMs feel that way too.

The article takes place from the last 10 years when there was elite QB play and the RB position was devalued. Defenses have been built to stop those kind of offenses so now offenses are moving in the opposite direction. The run game is becoming more important. TE's have proven to be a cheat code against defenses where they create matchups that NFL offenses can take advantage of.

Also if we're talking positional value let's talk about our needs on the lines since that's an obsession with many posters. We need a LG and a NT and maybe a 5 tech depending on how they see our roster. If we're talking positional value those are most definitely not top 10 worthy positions. Pass rushing OLB argument would make sense.

 

[DSnfla]

Not at all.

Why does it not? It should. The only very good D he played against this yr held him to just over 100yds . I see a good RB but I'm not convinced he's a generational talent until he goes up against real talent on D

 

[DSnfla]

It's not a consistent comparison, I compared him once. And it's not about Jeanty as a player. It's about positional value that I don't think RB has enough of to get one at 9. That's a luxury pick for when you team is good and you trade up because you need a RB more than you need draft picks. We're not that team.

EDIT: Here is an article talking about positional value. NFL teams take less RBs and TEs less than any other positions in the first round. It's not just me that feels that way, NFL GMs feel that way too.

Hell must be freezing because I agree with you LOL

 

[DSnfla]

I remember when people were wondering if Randy Moss would translate to the NFL.

Moss only had to beat a DB, not a whole defense

 

[Elvis]

The article takes place from the last 10 years when there was elite QB play and the RB position was devalued. Defenses have been built to stop those kind of offenses so now offenses are moving in the opposite direction. The run game is becoming more important. TE's have proven to be a cheat code against defenses where they create matchups that NFL offenses can take advantage of.

Also if we're talking positional value let's talk about our needs on the lines since that's an obsession with many posters. We need a LG and a NT and maybe a 5 tech depending on how they see our roster. If we're talking positional value those are most definitely not top 10 worthy positions. Pass rushing OLB argument would make sense.

There have been 5 total RBs taken in the 1st round over the last 5 years with an average draft position of 20th. Teams are not putting that much value on the RB position. A team WILL select Jeanty in the 1st round. I hope it's not our team. In fact I hope a team with a lot of picks likes him so much that they trade us a pile of them like we did for Ricky Williams.

 

[Deuuuuce]

2008 Pro Bowl - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't see Reggie on there. We had no Pro Bowl players in 2008.

And this isn't a hill I'm going to die on because Jeanty would be entertaining and the game IS about entertainment. I just think the RB position can be filled in a lot of different rounds if we wanted one this year and other positions get much thinner after the 1st round. If you're trying to build your team you have to prioritize not just players, but also positions where value is hard to find later.

If Jeanty gives us 1500 all purpose yards plus a couple of post season TDs like Bush did his rookie season, I’m taking that to the bank. Even if Reggie didn’t meet the astronomical expectations that year, that type of season is still easily worthy of a top 10 pick.

 

[tyler735]

Are none of you concerned about the level of competition with Jeanty?? I mean Hawaii , Utah St and Ga. Southern are not exactly SEC schools
To say he's a generational talent when he's played against 3 top 10 teams in 2 yrs and having 1 good game of the 3.

Not at all, I posted this on another forum today regarding this same topic:

Let’s also not forget that Ashton Jeanty went for over 150 yards from scrimmage and 2 touchdowns on just 14 touches against Washington in 2023. A team that played in the National Championship that year.

In other words, Jeanty played 3 games against top 10 opponents in his career (Washington, Oregon, and Penn State). He had 457 yards from scrimmage and 5 touchdowns in those games while playing with a completely overmatched offensive line against those teams. Average of 152 yards from scrimmage per game.

Raw stats obviously aren't the "be all end all" when evaluating prospects, but Jeanty continues to get questions over his level of competition and how he did vs "quality" opponents, so I do feel it's useful to compare what he's done against top 10 opponents. Here's how some other recent top RB's over the years have done against top 10 teams:

Bijan Robinson- 4 games against top 10 opponents, 365 yards from scrimmage, and 3 touchdowns. Average of 91 yards from scrimmage per game.

Saquon Barkley- 7 games against top 10 opponents, 950 yards from scrimmage, and 6 touchdowns. Average of 135 yards from scrimmage per game.

Christian McCaffrey- 4 games against top 10 opponents, 591 yards from scrimmage, and 1 touchdown. Average of 147 yards from scrimmage per game.

 

[TruSaint]

Why does it not? It should. The only very good D he played against this yr held him to just over 100yds . I see a good RB but I'm not convinced he's a generational talent until he goes up against real talent on D

You mean when his oline let him down and he was still breaking 4 or 5 tackles per play? That game make me like him anymore and showed me he’s an elite talent no matter who he plays.