Bowden had more snaps than Shaheed. Any scouts can share their thoughts? (2 Viewers)

[Jesse Custer]

Should've kept Tre'Quan.

Nah. Bowden is cheaper.

 

[bobad]

He's definitely not throwing a "key" block, he's in the game to block no different than the men before him (Coleman, Smith, Kirkwood etc) he has no impact as a receiver but for the sake of looking multiple he comes in to block.

I remember the way Payton used Coleman. He would block almost every snap he was in there, and when the defenders got tired of him and just tried to avoid him... bang! Payton called his number. Smith was used the same way. Too bad they were injury-prone/couldn't catch.

 

[MG3n2K5]

Nah. Bowden is cheaper.

Cheaper but not significantly cheaper & have seen enough to verify he was clearly better than Bowden & Kirkwood. Could've upgraded this off-season once his contract was up.

 

[St. Geezy]

Amen to this. Fatigue is a real thing and usage rates often beget injury.

I am all for him drawing extra coverage that will just open Mike and Olave up more. One day I sware our TE's are going to show up maybe this is the week.

You took the straw man bait, hook, line, and sinker.



No one said anything about the man running go routes all game long and wearing himself out other than the person claiming it would be dumb to.

News flash - other teams feature players all the time. This isn’t some radical thing I’m suggesting, and for it to be getting met with this much antagonist energy is hilarious to me.

Sean Payton seems to have instilled this idea in our fanbase (and perhaps even our current coaches) that featured players don’t exist or that it is some big no-no to avoid at all costs.

You even see it on game days when guys seem to disappear as soon as they get rolling.

 

[St. Geezy]

Three weapons should be on the field as much as possible, Taysom, Shaheed, AK.

Yep.

Figure out who your best players are and leave them out there other than for the occasional breather.

It’s silly that we bring in rando WRs exclusively to block, even tipping our hand based on that rando WR being in the game. That’s unheard of outside of New Orleans and another antiquated thing I’ll be glad is gone once the “Substitute teacher Sean Payton” Era is over (or once it finally evolves).

 

[platinumvinnyv]

Some of you guys are just contrarians for the sake of it; that tone was made very clear with your very first response to me on this topic where you assumed I had some simpleton-Madden minded thought of Shaheed running thirty 50 yard go routes a game and decided to so insightfully “teach me,” a former collegiate WR by the way, that this would wear out a receiver.

Do you really believe that an NFL athlete that’s doing the things Shaheed does isn’t capable of being fed the football via out routes, 5 to 15 yard slants, bubble screens, crossers, drags, lined up out the backfield and catching swings in the flat, multiple versions of jet sweeps, catching a simple half back toss or shovel pass, etc.?

Just because he isn’t scoring highlight reel TDs doing these things doesn’t mean he isn’t capable of it.

Come on man.

First of all we on a saints thread you posted your thoughts and I disagreed, we do it all the time. Shaheed basically won the game how he was used and I feel they are using him correctly as a change of pace receiver that can blow the top wide open on PA and after hitting short routes all game. When you post something for discussion everyone is allowed to discuss, I dont care if you were Tom Brady or Bill Belicheck Im still going respond if I feel like stating that I disagree. If you got offended because I said this isn't madden, like I dont know It wasnt that big of a deal, I was referencing madden as characters can go on go routes all game long without getting tired, because as I stated before I assumed you meant go routes because Shaheed is good at and known for his post routes. I dont have knowledge of what you think Shaheed can possibly be good at I am going on, as a fan, when I watch the game what he is good at. But if you feel because you played college WR and Shaheed ready to be the next Tyreek Hill/ Jerry Rice and dont want to be associated with madden in any way shap or form. You got it.

 

[Kingston]

You took the straw man bait, hook, line, and sinker.


View attachment 204179

No one said anything about the man running go routes all game long and wearing himself out other than the person claiming it would be dumb to.

I love reading a few posts then taking bait ..... but .......this one has a story to it (probably what every fish thinks when its getting tossed into the ice chest)

The security guard at my building has been going on and on about this all season and every loss we take is because we don't run deep every play with him. Well this was the week he was right .........

Now I will go back to my quite space ... this is some cold ice.

 

[St. Geezy]

First of all we on a saints thread you posted your thoughts and I disagreed, we do it all the time. Shaheed basically won the game how he was used and I feel they are using him correctly as a change of pace receiver that can blow the top wide open on PA and after hitting short routes all game. When you post something for discussion everyone is allowed to discuss, I dont care if you were Tom Brady or Bill Belicheck Im still going respond if I feel like stating that I disagree. If you got offended because I said this isn't madden, like I dont know It wasnt that big of a deal, I was referencing madden as characters can go on go routes all game long without getting tired, because as I stated before I assumed you meant go routes because Shaheed is good at and known for his post routes. I dont have knowledge of what you think Shaheed can possibly be good at I am going on, as a fan, when I watch the game what he is good at. But if you feel because you played college WR and Shaheed ready to be the next Tyreek Hill/ Jerry Rice and dont want to be associated with madden in any way shap or form. You got it.

You love creating these fake scenarios and putting words in people’s mouth, don’t you?

How someone can be this shook up about the idea of a guy that has shown over and over again that he is a playmaker getting significantly more touches is beyond me.

Not even worth debating with you at this stage. That’s true contrarian behavior. You’re going to be disagreeable no matter what.

How in the world could something like this be so contentious?

Only reason I threw the college WR thing out there is because it’s silly to suggest that anyone, much less someone that’s played, doesn’t know that someone can’t run go routes all day.

 

[platinumvinnyv]

You love creating these fake scenarios and putting words in people’s mouth, don’t you?

How someone can be this shook up about the idea of a guy that has shown over and over again that he is a playmaker getting significantly more touches is beyond me.

Not even worth debating with you at this stage. That’s true contrarian behavior. You’re going to be disagreeable no matter what.

How in the world could something like this be so contentious?

What Fake Scenerio Did I create. What are you talking about? Bro you trippin

Edit- I see. Yes I am Exaggerating for effect. I dont literrally think you Think Shaheed is rice mix with tyreek hill. I see where the confusion is coming from now. My fault you got it

 

[mr.t]

Sometimes less is better this aint madden you cant send a guy down a field 50 yards each play 30 plays a game without wearing down his legs. Sometimes its better to let him be fresh and bring him in when the def is fatigue also if you start forcing him the ball you going see that blanket coverage safety over top corner underneath. I actually wont be suprise if it begins in a couple of weeks and his prod slows down.

He will draw double teams. He can cross the middle also

 

[RJS]

Yep.

Figure out who your best players are and leave them out there other than for the occasional breather.

It’s silly that we bring in rando WRs exclusively to block, even tipping our hand based on that rando WR being in the game. That’s unheard of outside of New Orleans and another antiquated thing I’ll be glad is gone once the “Substitute teacher Sean Payton” Era is over (or once it finally evolves).

Some 2023 snap counts:

Tyreek Hill 66.6% of offensive snaps (lowest since his rookie year)
Jaylen Waddle 59.8% of offensive snaps

Michael Thomas 77.5% of offensive snaps
Chris Olave 80.5% of offensive snaps
Rashid Shaheed 58.7% of offensive snaps

 

[St. Geezy]

What Fake Scenerio Did I create. What are you talking about? Bro you trippin

Edit- I see. Yes I am Exaggerating for effect. I dont literrally think you Think Shaheed is rice mix with tyreek hill. I see where the confusion is coming from now. My fault you got it

The Jerry Rice thing, the idea that I believe or the only way to get Shaheed the ball more is on 30 go-routes a game, the false idea that I am beating my chest as a former WR as the basis for me being right about Shaheed. Come on, analyze what you write, and be sure you’re arguing with facts rather than have a person have to defend twisted words; that’s all I ask.

At the end of the day, I simply believe that a player that has shown that he’s a playmaker with virtually every offensive touch he gets should get significantly more touches and that we should find more ways to get him the ball, and you don’t.

Like I said, I have no idea how or why this is somehow such a contentious notion to where all this bickering is necessary, but it is what it is.

 

[Kingston]

You love creating these fake scenarios and putting words in people’s mouth, don’t you?

How someone can be this shook up about the idea of a guy that has shown over and over again that he is a playmaker getting significantly more touches is beyond me.

Not even worth debating with you at this stage. That’s true contrarian behavior. You’re going to be disagreeable no matter what.

How in the world could something like this be so contentious?

Only reason I threw the college WR thing out there is because it’s silly to suggest that anyone, much less someone that’s played, doesn’t know that someone can’t run go routes all day.

Just a semi-neutral observer...... even if you had to pull an edited web-shot down circling what aspects of the strawman concept I had engaged in then attach it to your post critiquing me (and trust ... I take no offense and thought it rather funny).

You are the one kind of red-zoning here. The topic is only contentious because you are making it so. Tone in the printed text is a hard thing to get ... but .... and here is where that neutral part comes in to play. Your tone right now is conveying hostility so I think that is what is making this contentious.
Just throw in an emoji or two and you can really get away with saying most anything it turns down the volume figuratively at least. Even the one can turn it down a bit.


On the topic at hand I am wholeheartedly in the camp that he does need to be featured more, along with Taysom. They both bring elite speed that's hard to defend. The go route is cool but I think they both can do a lot more than the simple roles we slot them into and they most certainly can and definitely should be featured more. We just need to open up our offense more and run tempo, we spent all this $$ on a QB lets let him do his thing. More plays equates to more touches for everyone so running tempo and sustaining drives gets everyone more. We were at our best when we were running guys in and out of the game so fast that opponents didn't have time to adjust because we had so much coming at them their heads were swimming. Presently, we have the shifting of personnel we just do it so predictably and at such a slow pace that we aren't fooling anyone. Guy X does this, guy Y does this, guy Z does this, maybe make guy X look like he so doing guy X type stuff then have him do guy Z type stuff.

At the end of the day bottom line I agree with you Shaheed needs more involvement.

 

[Mamba]

I don't think we have room for Bowden to become Taysom Hill lite any time soon, but it's the first game where he had more snaps than Shaheed.



My guess is that it was gameplan driven, in the Colts game we had the lowest usage of 3+ WR that we've had all season (44%), and Shaheed primarily plays in 3+ WR sets (86% of the time).


FWIW, we average 4.3 yds/att when Bowden is on the field and 3.6 yds/att when he isn't. It's driven by us having more explosive runs (10+ yards) when he is on the field (14% of runs when he is on VS 7% of runs when he is off).

We also average 8.3 yds/DB when he is on VS 6.1 yds/DB when he is off, and that's with only 3/23 pass attempts going for 10+ air yards. We average 6.1 YAC/att when he is on the field, which is going to be driven by good blocking and/or clear-outs.

While the difference can't be 100% attributed to his blocking, we have been a more productive offense when he is on the field (so far), which goes against the narrative that defenses are keying on and stopping the run when he is out there.


Pretty even throughout the game.




Against the Colts, we ran 67% of the time when he was on the field, yet still averaged 5.4 yds/carry with a 63% success rate.

We tipped our hand even more with Shaheed, passing 89% of the time when he was on the field, but still had 13.6 yds/DB with a 56% success rate.

Dude, great work and research. Bravo!

 

[sainthood]

My inference would be Bowden is taking Smith's old role as a primarily running play receiver who is giving a breather to any of the top three receivers based on the play and dedicated his craft to blocking. So yes Bowden may be on the field more than Shaheed but it is possible Bowden is subbing for Thomas, Olave, or Shaheed on a given play. The Saints never targeted Smith much and I don't even remember Bowden being targeted this year. My gut would tell me as a coach it is good to have a sub for all your top guys who can be serviceable. Yes it is clueing the defense in that the play is more likely a run but if you consider the defense is never going to double cover a player like Bowden no matter what we do and there are a ton of other factors like down and distance to indicate a run, I am not sure what else a coach can do but throw on those plays a reasonable amount of the time. It reminds me of the Saints letting Taysom throw once or twice a game which has to happen or all the run plays are way less productive.