Build the Saints' 3-4 Defense (38 Viewers)

[Snakehead]

Looking at Foskey through the lens of a 3-4 and more specifically the 3-4s we are narrowing in on by speculating who the DC might be. Where does he fit? His measurables and draft profile was good. His negatives have shown up in games. Considering each player would get an assessment to where they fit in the new scheme, does he have a fit?

If not, then he might be a candidate for a trade to a team who could use him. Even a late pick would be beneficial to get a player.

 

[Snakehead]

As it stands based on the way Philly lined up.

LDE - Bresee
RDE - Nathan Shepherd
NT - Bink
WLB - ?
RILB - Werner
LILB - Davis
Sam - ?

Josh Sweat (LOLB according to EPSN) dropped in coverage 34 times.
Nolan Smith(ROLB according to ESPN) dropped in coverage 45 times.

PFF has them reversed but either way the scheme doesn't drop (coverage snaps) it's LB's much, only as a changeup. Granderson dropped 32 times last year so he technically played as a rush OLB. Though he saw an uptick in OT(over tackle) snaps and I think that number should come down. Young dropped (20) times last year and Cam dropped (8)

By those #'s Cam Jordan shouldn't be starting at LOLB or ROLB and instead should be primarly used on 3rd downs because you don't want him playing in reverse. I'd argue having him in a Brandon Graham role, but if not you'd have him as whichever LB drops fewest in the scheme. So for that he'd be the SLB and Granderson would be your WLB.

I think if we're drafting today you need some else at Edge and you need someone at NT.

Ridgeway is someone who could be used at NT. He's still young and developing. If he focused on lower body strength/maybe added more size (he's already 325+), he could be the guy or at the very least the backup at NT.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Ridgeway is someone who could be used at NT. He's still young and developing. If he focused on lower body strength/maybe added more size (he's already 325+), he could be the guy or at the very least the backup at NT.

Accurate! I was editing, but he's not under contract but if you cut bink Ridgeway adds size/length/and youth to the interior, while also not having the learning curve that a rookie NT tends to have.

 

[Snakehead]

Accurate! I was editing, but he's not under contract but if you cut bink Ridgeway adds size/length/and youth to the interior, while also not having the learning curve that a rookie NT tends to have.

Ridgeway is under contract for 2025 and a UFA in 2026.

John Ridgeway | NFL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

John Ridgeway signed a 4 year, $3,902,552 contract with the Dallas Cowboys, including $242,552 signing bonus, $242,552 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $975,638. In 2025, Ridgeway will earn a base salary of $1,100,000, while carrying a cap hit of $1,100,000.

www.spotrac.com

 

[Rouxble]

Both Williams and his backup Moro Ojomo (LDE) accounted for roughly 290 snaps OT (over the tackle/assuming 5tech) and they combined for 600+ snaps at DT.

Carter and his backup Thomas Booker (RDE) accounted for 206 snaps OT and 700 + snaps at DT.

I posted their alignments earlier in the thread, Fangio almost never puts his DE’s at 5-tech. It’s almost more of a bear front with DE’s in the B gaps and a NT over/shading the center.

For reference, here is how the Eagles interior defenders lined up with a hand in the dirt throughout the regular season:



And here are the edge defenders:



The Eagles rarely had a player lined up as a 5-tech, and Jalen Carter had the most snaps from that alignment (23). By comparison, they lined players up as a 4- or 4i nearly seven times as often.

 

[soggymoss84]

Looking at Foskey through the lens of a 3-4 and more specifically the 3-4s we are narrowing in on by speculating who the DC might be. Where does he fit? His measurables and draft profile was good. His negatives have shown up in games. Considering each player would get an assessment to where they fit in the new scheme, does he have a fit?

If not, then he might be a candidate for a trade to a team who could use him. Even a late pick would be beneficial to get a player.

Foskey would actually be ideal at one of the OLB spots. He’s fast (4.58 40), shifty (decent 3 cone time of 7.2), and pretty explosive with a 1.66 10 yard split. He’s been played out of position trying to make him a DE IMO, and he could be unlocked by putting him at what should be his natural position.

 

[Snakehead]

Foskey would actually be ideal at one of the OLB spots. He’s fast (4.58 40), shifty (decent 3 cone time of 7.2), and pretty explosive with a 1.66 10 yard split. He’s been played out of position trying to make him a DE IMO, and he could be unlocked by putting him at what should be his natural position.

This is my thought as well. We are seeing as guys move on, that the previous staff didn't use players correctly. Foskey is under contract for 2 more seasons on a rookie deal. He gets a clean slate with the next staff and a 3-4 and better coaching could be just what he needs.

 

[Mr. Coach Klein]

It seemed a bit of a stretch to say that his run defense woes were only because he lined up at NT, but I wanted to check his snaps to see how many times he lined up over as a nose. For a baseline of the player/position he's going to play I pulled up Jalen Carter.

Carter played NT 18 times last year
Bresee 66, down from the 84 his rookie year.

50 fewer snaps at NT probably helps him not be in bad position, but I can't say adding those 50 snaps to 3Tech suddenly makes him a better run defender either.

You're always there for the hard to dig up stats. I appreciate you.

 

[Mr. Coach Klein]

Oh I’m not saying he’s a good run defender, I’m just saying he’ll be facing less double teams usually at 3tech so it’ll at least help. I’d rather someone who is weak be the run playing the 3 than the 1. Someone who isn’t good vs the run, I’d rather play to his strengths and put him in a position to succeed. I’m not saying playing NT is the reason, I’m just saying it exacerbates it.

Good coaches adapt to the players. If he's at 1 more than 3, we hired the wrong guy.

 

[Mr. Coach Klein]

Here is some data from a source that identifies snaps by alignment:


What I noticed when looking at the A-gap snaps for Bresee (0, 1, 2i), he was rarely in run defense on those plays. On 139 snaps, he only saw a running play on 26 plays (19%), which means he was likely rarely moved inside on early downs.

Good observation on being lined up there mostly on pass plays. Seems like we wasted a lot of opportunity there. IMO he should be like 1% inside of a 3.

 

[TruSaint]

touche. I'm comparing him to Jalen Carter and, though I don't like his length, Bresee is starting to seem more like an End than Tackle.

Carter was 6'3 315 (33 1/1 inch arms) at the combine, Bresse 6'5 295 (32 1/2 inch arms). That weight differential is substantial and may explain why he's not been as effective in run defense as an interior defender. Jalens running mate at DE/DT was Milton Williams. He played the LDE position and his playing weight was closer to 291.

Both Williams and his backup Moro Ojomo (LDE) accounted for roughly 290 snaps OT (over the tackle/assuming 5tech) and they combined for 600+ snaps at DT.

Carter and his backup Thomas Booker (RDE) accounted for 206 snaps OT and 700 + snaps at DT.

So that Data suggest that the LDE in that scheme plays 90-100 more snaps OT than they do as a true DT. This may ultimately be Bresee's home and we may have to look into getting a new base 3Tech and 1 Tech. The positive in this is that we will natually get bigger on the LOS. Bresee actually played 137 snaps OT about 60 fewer than Carter, so if you remove those 50+ NT snaps and add them to OT snaps he should be at home.

All that to say. Bresee fits as a LDE next year and we should be looking at upgrading our NT/RDE and that RDE is usually in the 305-315 area.

Great info, with our current roster if we switched to a 3-4 Bresee would have to play that 3 tech DE but if we landed someone like Graham Bresee would excel at 5 tech in the base and then kicking inside in the nickel in my opinion.

 

[TruSaint]

As it stands based on the way Philly lined up.

LDE - Bresee
RDE - Nathan Shepherd
NT - Bink
WLB - ?
RILB - Werner
LILB - Davis
Sam - ?

Josh Sweat (LOLB according to EPSN) dropped in coverage 34 times.
Nolan Smith(ROLB according to ESPN) dropped in coverage 45 times.

PFF has them reversed but either way the scheme doesn't drop (coverage snaps) it's LB's much, only as a changeup. Granderson dropped 32 times last year so he technically played as a rush OLB. Though he saw an uptick in OT(over tackle) snaps and I think that number should come down. Young dropped (20) times last year and Cam dropped (8)

By those #'s Cam Jordan shouldn't be starting at LOLB or ROLB and instead should be primarly used on 3rd downs because you don't want him playing in reverse. I'd argue having him in a Brandon Graham role, but if not you'd have him as whichever LB drops fewest in the scheme. So for that he'd be the SLB and Granderson would be your WLB.

I think if we're drafting today you need some else at Edge and you need someone at DT. I thought Bink outplayed Shepherd last year but he may be a casualty and we may bring back Ridgeway who is bigger and longer than Bink. Passing on NT might not be the worst thing even though I know guys are big on some of the names there it's also a position that plays maybe 20% of the snaps a game. Those resources could go elsewhere.

1st year NT's also don't make a huge impact. The scheme also isn't a heavy blitz scheme, though it does send 5 as a regular changeup. More importatnly because it's a match zone scheme it puts a premium on having guys who can effect the passer. I don't know that we have enough firepower there and someone like Mykel Williams could be an Aldon Smith type player for us.

Granderson would play the Josh sweat wide 9 WOLB. We would need to fill the SOLB spot.

James Pearce would be phenomenal here. So would Walker from Georgia.

 

[Mr. Coach Klein]

touche. I'm comparing him to Jalen Carter and, though I don't like his length, Bresee is starting to seem more like an End than Tackle.

Carter was 6'3 315 (33 1/1 inch arms) at the combine, Bresse 6'5 295 (32 1/2 inch arms). That weight differential is substantial and may explain why he's not been as effective in run defense as an interior defender. Jalens running mate at DE/DT was Milton Williams. He played the LDE position and his playing weight was closer to 291.

Both Williams and his backup Moro Ojomo (LDE) accounted for roughly 290 snaps OT (over the tackle/assuming 5tech) and they combined for 600+ snaps at DT.

Carter and his backup Thomas Booker (RDE) accounted for 206 snaps OT and 700 + snaps at DT.

So that Data suggest that the LDE in that scheme plays 90-100 more snaps OT than they do as a true DT. This may ultimately be Bresee's home and we may have to look into getting a new base 3Tech and 1 Tech. The positive in this is that we will natually get bigger on the LOS. Bresee actually played 137 snaps OT about 60 fewer than Carter, so if you remove those 50+ NT snaps and add them to OT snaps he should be at home.

All that to say. Bresee fits as a LDE next year and we should be looking at upgrading our NT/RDE and that RDE is usually in the 305-315 area.

Believe it or not, Bresee measures up nearly identical to Chris Jones. (MSU fan) I've watched CJ a long time. They are really similar. It takes these 'lanky' DTs a minute to get their game going. IDK why. If I did I'd be a coach.

 

[Mr. Coach Klein]

Believe it or not, Bresee measures up nearly identical to Chris Jones. (MSU fan) I've watched CJ a long time. They are really similar. It takes these 'lanky' DTs a minute to get their game going. IDK why. If I did I'd be a coach

Other post was too long for the site

 

[TruSaint]

Believe it or not, Bresee measures up nearly identical to Chris Jones. (MSU fan) I've watched CJ a long time. They are really similar. It takes these 'lanky' DTs a minute to get their game going. IDK why. If I did I'd be a coach.

That’s funny, I’ve actually compared Bresee to Jones a few times in the past. Nice take.