Catholic Church Scandal! (1 Viewer)

[GeauxWhoDats]

Still, you can criticize it, condemn it, call it out for its moral/ethical failures, or institutional corruption and still not have your name or your family’s names dragged through the mud online or attacked. They won’t “Fair Play”. If you confess to any priest, it’s of your own free will, your not forced to sit in rooms and give up or say embarrassing, sensitive personal information that could later be used against you by E-meter polygraph machines.


If you stop attending mass or don’t donate and declare you’re an atheist, I don’t think there’s some policy that states your family and loved ones are forbidden from talking or even communicating with you anymore.

You are hyper-focusing on Scientology and the inability or difficulty of leaving that organization which has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Booker]

Same same.. Well, kinda.. i didnt get married in a church, but the other stuff i quoted above applies to me as well.. I too am a Recovering Catholic of over 20 years.. I think it’s painfully obvious at this point that it’s more than just “a few bad apples” that make up the Catholic Church at this point, it’s an entire systemic pattern of grossness that infests Catholicism.. and it makes all the “Hollywood pedo” stuff that’s been in the news lately seem like child’s play, pun intended.. The Catholic stuff is way worse.. not to compare two extremely disturbing patterns, but the truth hurts .

That's the irony of the qanon idiots -- they've constructed a conspiracy about an international pedophile ring operating in secrecy, while the Catholic Church is effectively an international pedophile ring operating in plain sight.

 

[Saintman2884]

You missed my much larger point.....I'm not comparing levels of cultism here.....

Which is arguably worse, SF? Being a Unitarian Universalist or being a member of late Jim Jones People’s Temple? Unitarians are very open-minded, but if you don’t agree with some of their teachings, that’s okay you can leave and no one will stop you or your actions scrutinized.


In a cult like Scientology or People’s Temple, it’s worse, far worse in fact.

 

[Saintman2884]

You are hyper-focusing on Scientology and the inability or difficulty of leaving that organization which has nothing to do with this thread.

It’s related to a response Marsha made about organized religions acting like cults today and knowing how cults operate, work or function, that’s just really the case.


You can leave any Church you like and tell them you’re an atheist. If you’re apart of a cult, that’s a lot harder and far more difficult.

That’s my point.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Oh, i think they should be allowed to get married. But married men are not immune to being pedophiles.

Correct.. i just think that when it comes to matters of Catholicism, it would be far more palatable to the rank and file to say “We are gonna let priests get married” than it would be to say “Priests, yall feel free to go out and get laid whenever you want, dont bother with that celibacy garbage.. and whatever you do, stay away from the children .”

 

[St. Widge]

Still, you can criticize it, condemn it, call it out for its moral/ethical failures, or institutional corruption and still not have your name or your family’s names dragged through the mud online or attacked. They won’t “Fair Play”. If you confess to any priest, it’s of your own free will, your not forced to sit in rooms and give up or say embarrassing, sensitive personal information that could later be used against you by E-meter polygraph machines.


If you stop attending mass or don’t donate and declare you’re an atheist, I don’t think there’s some policy that states your family and loved ones are forbidden from talking or even communicating with you anymore.

Sure. I mean, I'm not saying that the Church of Scientology is not a horrible cult. And they have done many terrible things including the things you mention. And, yes, you can speak out against the Catholic Church without fear of reprisal today (at least in America). But, they too have done their fair share of horrible things for many centuries.

And, a few centuries ago many were burned at the stake tortured, or otherwise killed or shunned from society if they spoke out or questioned the Catholic Church or belief in the Christina god in general. And some of that continued into the 19th, 20th, and even 21st century. So, it wasn't that long ago that you could not say you were an atheist or leave churches without severe punishment or even death. Even now that's the case in some places.

Then again, that's the nature of almost every human organization. They often become corrupt and do horrible things. Some even start out that way.

 

[sfidc3]

Which is arguably worse, SF? Being a Unitarian Universalist or being a member of late Jim Jones People’s Temple? Unitarians are very open-minded, but if you don’t agree with some of their teachings, that’s okay you can leave and no one will stop you or your actions scrutinized.


In a cult like Scientology or People’s Temple, it’s worse, far worse in fact.

I'm not arguing whose "arguably worse", I don't prescribe to any of them.....if this is an attempt of deflection in order to defend the Catholic church somehow then it is a poor one.....

If not then maybe you missed the part where I said I don't believe in any organized religion.....they've done more harm then good IMO.....

 

[Saintman2884]

I'm not arguing whose "arguably worse", I don't prescribe to any of them.....if this is an attempt of deflection in order to defend the Catholic church somehow then it is a poor one.....

If not then maybe you missed the part where I said I don't believe in any organized religion.....they've done more harm then good IMO.....

Organized religion can be a lot like governments. They tend to cause more problems then solve them or make them worse.


I wasn’t defending Catholic Church’s bad behavior or institutional corruption, I’m just pointing out that at least you can safely criticize, condemn them and not be put on a hit list, like some cults do.

 

[Saintman2884]

Sure. I mean, I'm not saying that the Church of Scientology is not a horrible cult. And they have done many terrible things including the things you mention. And, yes, you can speak out against the Catholic Church without fear of reprisal today (at least in America). But, they too have done their fair share of horrible things for many centuries.

And, a few centuries ago many were burned at the stake tortured, or otherwise killed or shunned from society if they spoke out or questioned the Catholic Church or belief in the Christina god in general. And some of that continued into the 19th, 20th, and even 21st century. So, it wasn't that long ago that you could not say you were an atheist or leave churches without severe punishment or even death. Even now that's the case in some places.

Then again, that's the nature of almost every human organization. They often become corrupt and do horrible things. Some even start out that way.

As far as your last paragraph, Widge, I think that generally refers to human nature in general and how even once-notable, great or noble institutions, people, ideals get corrupted or compromised over time and stagnation.


Human beings are very corruptible and so are many institutions they form, whether religious, political, or philanthropic.


It does beg the question though and this is something Dortesesky touched on in the Grand Inquisitor: how would Jesus Christ be received and treated if he came back today and called out most religious leaders for their fraud and hypocrisy like he did 2,000 years ago?

 

[Tapxe]

That's the irony of the qanon idiots -- they've constructed a conspiracy about an international pedophile ring operating in secrecy, while the Catholic Church is effectively an international pedophile ring operating in plain sight.

It's not limited to the Catholic church. Something I pointed out to my baptist friends. Their solution was to ignore it and say baptist churches are all independent so they can do nothing to stop it. But if one of their churches were to court gay members, they seem to have no trouble speaking out and forcing the issue.

Mark Woods: A biblical downfall for pillars of Southern Baptist Convention

I’ve been thinking about Dad recently — partly because Father’s Day is coming up, partly because of the news involving the Southern Baptist Convention.

www.jacksonville.com

Southern Baptist sex abuse list includes names of 10 accused Jacksonville-area ministers

The list was released after an outside firm said the convention's leaders had been focused on avoiding liability. Among the names is Darrell Gilyard.

www.jacksonville.com

It came to light after being given to a consulting firm that this month reported that previous leaders had been “singularly focused on avoiding liability” and “ignored, disbelieved” or even “vilified” people reporting abuse.

https://sbcec.s3.amazonaws.com/FINAL+-+List+of+Alleged+Abusers+-+SBC+REDACTED.pdf

 

[kcirdor]

Converted? Hasn't that basically been the Vatican since maybe the Renaissance? In fact, it might have been worse back then.

Isn't the Vatican just Rome's last ditch effort to hold influence over the empire, basically the gilded "tax" haven to continue to rule the world? The empire might have fizzled out, but that church they built to try and convert the pagans and make it easier to control the empire sure held power for nearly 1700 more years.

How much money does it take for you to rule in Portugal's favor, Pope Alexander?

How many married teachers abuse their students? Should all teacher's be forced to be married before they begin teaching? It isn't the lack of marriage, it is the monster in the person.

can confirm... High school coach, who's wife also taught at the school, caught messin with the children.

 

[kcirdor]

I don’t know if you can really compare Catholic Church to Scientology or NXIVM. There are some crucial, fundamental differences between those “cults” and a Christian denomination that’s existed for 1,950 years. You can bash, mock insult the Catholic Church all day long but Heaven help you if you dare to leave Scientology or criticize its teachings, L. Ron Hubbard, Ron Miscavige, or its ultra-expensive authoritarian internal power-structure. If you publicly criticize either Miscavige or the Scientology, you are then immediately put on a “Fair Play” hit list and harassed, bullied, stalked and threatened.


Don’t believe me, ask Leah Remini and be sure to watch some of her 3-season expose series about Scientology.

fundamentally, Wrong.

 

[Saintman2884]

fundamentally, Wrong.

Can I be tortured in the comfortable comfy recliner?

Because if I’m not supposed to be expecting the Spanish Inquisition, I want to be lectured to death in style.

Also, can you also do some fake, hysterical maniacal laughs that showcases no one should ever underestimate the Spanish Inquisition???!!!

 

[kcirdor]

This is a bit of a tangent, but I once looked into how you leave the Catholic Church and the only way is to be officially excommunicated which is a lot more difficult than you would think. They don't like to do it and it takes persistence. As a result, I'm still Catholic as far as the Church is concerned despite the fact that I have been an atheist since I was 13 or 14.

did you Confirm? I didn't. to hell with that. I was openly Atheist in catechism and during my time at Our Lady Immaculate.

 

[St. Widge]

It does beg the question though and this is something Dortesesky touched on in the Grand Inquisitor: how would Jesus Christ be received and treated if he came back today and called out most religious leaders for their fraud and hypocrisy like he did 2,000 years ago?

He would be considered a fraud and called a woke socialist. He'd probably be getting arrested on a college campus today.