Comparing some of Drew Brees's worst games to that of Taysom Hill vs the Broncos (2 Viewers)

[Infoman]

Of course, one game doesn't break him. That said through preseason games and regular season appearances we have seen him struggle with what made him so bad vs Denver, and the Denver game showed no improvement. once again, not enough to throw in the towel on him. But it's very concerning to not see any progression through the years.

Of course not... But Really? I thought he looked fine in pre season throwing the ball and making reads (good completion % and ball placement)... especially considering the time on task at the QB position, and the fact that he could never really focus on learning one position (namely QB)... which, if I had to guess, is probably 1/3rd of what a guy playing QB specifically would get.

Then he was in the same situation this regular season before being force into action without much (if any) practice time or time on task specifically at the QB position...

Does that not factor at all into the eval - both now - and going forward?

 

[RevDeuceWindham]

Of course not... But Really? I thought he looked fine in pre season throwing the ball and making reads (good completion % and ball placement)... especially considering the time on task at the QB position, and the fact that he could never really focus on learning one position (namely QB)... which, if I had to guess, is probably 1/3rd of what a guy playing QB specifically would get.

Then he was in the same situation this regular season before being force into action without much (if any) practice time or time on task specifically at the QB position...

Does that not factor at all into the eval - both now - and going forward?

I had his preseason performances graded pretty negatively (with the exception of some time with the reserves). Ball placement has never been something he's consistent with and he's struggled to throw with touch/various throw mechanics. Generally he has a laser, and that's it. If he can't rifle it in he doesn't tend to try the throw.

If we were talking about a guy who never played the position, sure, those factor in for like a 22 year old rookie out of college. He's had 4 NFL offseasons/training camps with 2 different teams and he should know how to operate in this system and execute the basic concepts he's given. It's not like he's being asked to read a full field at a Brees level. He's missing simple stuff right in front of his nose.

Once again, not writing him off, but struggle to read basic underneath zone and getting sacked because of it at 30+ years old is simply concerning and it shouldn't be brushed aside. Doesn't mean he can't overcome, but it's a glaring negative.

 

[Walter White]

I had his preseason performances graded pretty negatively (with the exception of some time with the reserves). Ball placement has never been something he's consistent with and he's struggled to throw with touch/various throw mechanics. Generally he has a laser, and that's it. If he can't rifle it in he doesn't tend to try the throw.

If we were talking about a guy who never played the position, sure, those factor in for like a 22 year old rookie out of college. He's had 4 NFL offseasons/training camps with 2 different teams and he should know how to operate in this system and execute the basic concepts he's given. It's not like he's being asked to read a full field at a Brees level. He's missing simple stuff right in front of his nose.

Once again, not writing him off, but struggle to read basic underneath zone and getting sacked because of it at 30+ years old is simply concerning and it shouldn't be brushed aside. Doesn't mean he can't overcome, but it's a glaring negative.

Great analysis

 

[LUX]

Brees didn’t start his career that great at the chargers. He was benched multiple times and then let go. Hill may need time to develop as well.

People keep saying he needs time to develop. He is 30 years old, how much more time he needs? Pretty soon, if not already, that arm strength is going to fizzle. I don't care how young your body is in the league. Father time catches up and if you're 30 and still ain't got it right, it ain't happening...

 

[dutar76]

Yes but we put up 31 points. On a good defense. I would have been thrilled for Aaron Brooks to do that. Drew has spoiled us. Denver is great against the pass don't forget that.

To be fair, we've never been in a game like that with Drew. Roughly 36 minutes to 24 minutes in time of possession where the other team only throws the ball 9 times with 1 completion, 7 punts, and 3 turnovers.
Partly because we've never played an offense THAT bad and also partly because we've never really had this good of a defense for much of Drew's career.

31 points is pretty good against a good defense no matter how you get them. But 3 extra possessions due to turnovers and several extra because of a lot of 3 and outs. Even in Drew's worst games, we'd probably
have similar points all things considered. Especially in a game like yesterday. I'm not sure who wanted that game over more. Us or the Broncos.

 

[Infoman]

I had his preseason performances graded pretty negatively (with the exception of some time with the reserves). Ball placement has never been something he's consistent with and he's struggled to throw with touch/various throw mechanics. Generally he has a laser, and that's it. If he can't rifle it in he doesn't tend to try the throw.

If we were talking about a guy who never played the position, sure, those factor in for like a 22 year old rookie out of college. He's had 4 NFL offseasons/training camps with 2 different teams and he should know how to operate in this system and execute the basic concepts he's given. It's not like he's being asked to read a full field at a Brees level. He's missing simple stuff right in front of his nose.

Once again, not writing him off, but struggle to read basic underneath zone and getting sacked because of it at 30+ years old is simply concerning and it shouldn't be brushed aside. Doesn't mean he can't overcome, but it's a glaring negative.

I thought his ball placement was fine... I agree on the consistency and mechanics... He does tend to be an "on a line" thrower.

I think where we differ here is on the "why it's been that way so far".

IMO he's a 30 year old first time starter with the equivalent of 1/3rd of his off seasons spent in the QB room over 3 years.... and 2/3rds of the time spent doing just about anything he could do to help team.

Not brushing anything aside... I just don't think we have a good sample size (nor proper training time equivalent) under the proper circumstances to really determine what we have here...

He's going to miss some things... we agree on that....

We disagree on the why. And that's fair.

Taysom's situation is very unique really - and most direct and typical comparisons do not apply IMO.

 

[football]

I had his preseason performances graded pretty negatively (with the exception of some time with the reserves). Ball placement has never been something he's consistent with and he's struggled to throw with touch/various throw mechanics. Generally he has a laser, and that's it. If he can't rifle it in he doesn't tend to try the throw.

If we were talking about a guy who never played the position, sure, those factor in for like a 22 year old rookie out of college. He's had 4 NFL offseasons/training camps with 2 different teams and he should know how to operate in this system and execute the basic concepts he's given. It's not like he's being asked to read a full field at a Brees level. He's missing simple stuff right in front of his nose.

Once again, not writing him off, but struggle to read basic underneath zone and getting sacked because of it at 30+ years old is simply concerning and it shouldn't be brushed aside. Doesn't mean he can't overcome, but it's a glaring negative.

Exactly. Even if he perform well going forward, I feel we need to draft a quarterback. But I will give him credit for one thing....He will not risk it. Looking at the replay, I can see why he held the ball. He does not want to make mistakes.

 

[BarBar]

2 starts and over 50 points scored and Hill hasn't thrown a TD pass in either game. That is pretty concerning.

Also can't get Kamara involved.

Even in his low QBR games you have never see Brees play anywhere near as bad as what We saw yesterday.

I hope for a much different Hill next week.

 

[BoNcHiE]

ESPN QBR is a trash stat. Brees has never had a game as a passer as bad as yesterday, nor have most decent QBs. It is what it is.

 

[LonghornSaintsFan]

I really think Y'all should take a chill pill and wait for crucifying our promising "rookie QB"

Let's compare Taysoms QBR to some of Drew Breeses worst QB ratings the last couple of years (as per ESPN, don't know if they are comparable as they had T Hill at 33.8 QBR vs the Broncos). https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/2580/type/nfl/year/2015

2018 vs CAR = 24.3
2018 vs DAL = 17.9
2018 vs NYG = 33.6
2017 vs NE = 37.3
2016 bs Bucs = 26.9
2106 vs ATL = 38.3
2015 vs TEX = 25.5
2015 vs PHI = 22.0
2015 vs. Bucs = 22.7

Brees has had on avg more than 1+ WORSE GAMES (or very close to) per season, than Taysom Hill had Sunday!! Brees lost most of these games, Taysom didn't. Brees is a bonified hall of famer. So chill please!

If I remember correctly 2015-16 Drew had some of the worst defenses in NFL history backing him up.

 

[Saint Kamara]

I had his preseason performances graded pretty negatively (with the exception of some time with the reserves). Ball placement has never been something he's consistent with and he's struggled to throw with touch/various throw mechanics. Generally he has a laser, and that's it. If he can't rifle it in he doesn't tend to try the throw.

If we were talking about a guy who never played the position, sure, those factor in for like a 22 year old rookie out of college. He's had 4 NFL offseasons/training camps with 2 different teams and he should know how to operate in this system and execute the basic concepts he's given. It's not like he's being asked to read a full field at a Brees level. He's missing simple stuff right in front of his nose.

Once again, not writing him off, but struggle to read basic underneath zone and getting sacked because of it at 30+ years old is simply concerning and it shouldn't be brushed aside. Doesn't mean he can't overcome, but it's a glaring negative.

Well said.

 

[Saint Kamara]

If I remember correctly 2015-16 Drew had some of the worst defenses in NFL history backing him up.

2007, 2008, 2012, 2014, 2015, 2016

Those are all our non winning seasons

Every time the defense has been either moderately decent to good to very good, we've won either 11 or 13 games (2006 we were 10-5 before giving away the last game of the season).

 

[StudioSaint]

I had his preseason performances graded pretty negatively ...

Do you know how the Saints graded those same performances? I think they are in the best position to most accurately grade those performances. I know their grades are the only ones that matter to them.

 

[RevDeuceWindham]

Do you know how the Saints graded those same performances? I think they are in the best position to most accurately grade those performances. I know their grades are the only ones that matter to them.

To an extent, yes. I've had several chats with scouts (both pro and collegiate departments) in house about various players. Generally the evaluation (this players does this good/bad) are the same for everyone. The valuation is where you have differences of opinion. EX: Can player overcome this. What's their ceiling? etc. There are also intangibles (especially on the mental side of things) that are incredibly difficult to quantify.

 

[StudioSaint]

To an extent, yes. I've had several chats with scouts (both pro and collegiate departments) in house about various players. Generally the evaluation (this players does this good/bad) are the same for everyone. The valuation is where you have differences of opinion. EX: Can player overcome this. What's their ceiling? etc. There are also intangibles (especially on the mental side of things) that are incredibly difficult to quantify.

It seems like you are saying you know how the Saints graded Hill's preseason performances. If so, what were the Saints grades of Hill's preseason performances? I'm curious to know how they graded him.

Also, if you know how they graded him for the Atlanta and Denver games, I'd like to know those as well.