COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) [over 150.000,000 US cases (est.), 6,422,520 US hospitilizations, 1,148,691 US deaths.] (3 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

With simply offering an example of what you said, the governor of Arkansas admitted it was a mistake to end the mask mandate last summer.

Yeah, there are other examples, mask usage, lockdowns, school closings, crime bills, budgets, really a lot of different things where I've seen policy makers change their approach. Happens all the time.

 

[Sailorsaint]

Meanwhile at the site of the 'Lympics

Beijing locks down office building with workers still inside after single Omicron case detected | CNN

At an office building in China's capital on Sunday, masked Covid control personnel lugged boxes of pillows and bedding through the closely guarded entrance for white collar workers stuck inside, preparing for what may be days of lockdown as Beijing rushes to prevent the spread of Omicron ahead...

www.cnn.com

Wow, they ain't taking ANY chances!

 

[Doug B]

School Closures Were a Catastrophe. Progressives Still Haven’t Reckoned With It.

If you don’t diagnose your error, you might repeat it.

nymag.com

This is a thought-provoking article, but far too one-sided. The comments below are well-written, and provide necessary counterpoints to Chait's piece.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

School Closures Were a Catastrophe. Progressives Still Haven’t Reckoned With It.

If you don’t diagnose your error, you might repeat it.

nymag.com

There is an interesting companion piece to be written about college/grad schools and their response to COVID. From my observation, the higher the school ranks in US News report, the more draconian their approach and higher degree of learning loss/student anxiety/misery.

Yale has a booster requirement and 99% vax rate but students aren't allowed to shop or eat anywhere in the town of New Haven. It's insanity.

 

[efil4stnias]

Policy makers will never admit they were wrong. No matter which side of the political spectrum they come from.

Its a decision they have to live with.

We all, at some point, make a decision, with the best available information we have AT THE TIME of the decision.

Very few will readily admit mistakes. Especially if its not taken in context of the time that the decision was made. Many lose sight of the fact that things evolved quite quickly once COVID reached the US. At that point, mitigation was the main option. There were no viable other options other than to say " you know what? Eff it. Lets all get it and let the chips fall where they may" - and NO ONE was willing to do that. But some kept silent waiting for the opportunity to critique - but its so easy to critique when you arent the one having to make the decision.

In March of 2020, i applauded Jon Bel Edwards to make the call to lockdown work/school. It took a massive amount of guts to make that call based on the information presented to him at that time from every imaginable source. You have to trust the information is good. Question and verify. So when scientists and lead medical professionals are providing this info, its really all you have to go on to make informed decisions.

Now, 2 years into this pandemic, we have a much greater understanding of how it operates, viable therapies and prevention ( vaccine ) and so now i think much more thought needs to be given to what are the ramifications/consequences of the decision. Whereas 2 years ago, it was clear. Many more deaths than we had.

I dont envy decision makers.

I was just involved in our companies expansion. After almost 5 years of recommendations, the powers that be relented and listened to my advice. But i will have you know that EVERY SINGLE ONE of those decision makers has put the the "failure" of this new location squarely in my lap if it indeed fails. Now, im not involved in ANY ASPECT of hiring/firing, location, market research etc etc. Yet i will bear the brunt of the ire if it were to fail. Shoot, i caught flak last week because furniture, which was ordered Dec 1 to be delivered Dec 28 NEVER MADE IT and now our opening is delayed a month. ( i had nothing to do with ordering or keeping track of ). Yet i had Bossmang in my office a week ago ranting to me about how he "signed off on this and yet nothing happening"



If it is successful, i will have had very little to do with.

Its just how it goes.

 

[efil4stnias]

There is an interesting companion piece to be written about college/grad schools and their response to COVID. From my observation, the higher the school ranks in US News report, the more draconian their approach and higher degree of learning loss/student anxiety/misery.

Yale has a booster requirement and 99% vax rate but students aren't allowed to shop or eat anywhere in the town of New Haven. It's insanity.

Is it though?

Its a requirement...you dont have to follow it and can find another institution. They are doing what they have decided is best for the student body, faculty and community.

If one wishes to continue their studies at Yale, they have the choice to comply. If not, they can apply and finish studies elsewhere. In the end, the only folks really getting the short end would be Yale with depressed enrollment. That remains to be seen.

Again, its easy to critique when you arent the decision maker and dont have all of the information they are privy to.

And im not agreeing or disagreeing in either sense. Just giving you an alternate viewpoint.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Is it though?

Its a requirement...you dont have to follow it and can find another institution. They are doing what they have decided is best for the student body, faculty and community.

If one wishes to continue their studies at Yale, they have the choice to comply. If not, they can apply and finish studies elsewhere. In the end, the only folks really getting the short end would be Yale with depressed enrollment. That remains to be seen.

Again, its easy to critique when you arent the decision maker and dont have all of the information they are privy to.

And im not agreeing or disagreeing in either sense. Just giving you an alternate viewpoint.

Of course everyone is free to leave Yale if they so choose - in fact I know of a family from SC whose child transferred from Harvard(!) to Clemson this year for this exact reason, and the kid is 1000% happier. True story. And its sort of my point - the smarty-pants schools are shooting themselves in the foot. I'm sure they will survive but its going to have an impact, just like k-12 closures and remote learning is going to have an impact.

My oldest is a college kid at a top liberal arts college and their 2020-21 school year was like this (all online, lockdowns/roving campus cops writing up students without masks, expulsions for "illegal gatherings") and it was a disaster. Students and parents revolted and eventually the board stepped in to right the ship. But she basically got zero out of her freshman year of college. This year has been as close to normal as can be and it's been like night and day.

My HS junior has excellent grades and resume and wont even look at any school that is north of Virginia or west of Texas. He's seen these same things happening to his sibling and older peers and is not willing to risk it.

 

[DaveXA]

Of course everyone is free to leave Yale if they so choose - in fact I know of a family from SC whose child transferred from Harvard(!) to Clemson this year for this exact reason, and the kid is 1000% happier. True story. And its sort of my point - the smarty-pants schools are shooting themselves in the foot. I'm sure they will survive but its going to have an impact, just like k-12 closures and remote learning is going to have an impact.

My oldest is a college kid at a top liberal arts college and their 2020-21 school year was like this (all online, lockdowns/roving campus cops writing up students without masks, expulsions for "illegal gatherings") and it was a disaster. Students and parents revolted and eventually the board stepped in to right the ship. But she basically got zero out of her freshman year of college. This year has been as close to normal as can be and it's been like night and day.

My HS junior has excellent grades and resume and wont even look at any school that is north of Virginia or west of Texas. He's seen these same things happening to his sibling and older peers and is not willing to risk it.

Yeah, my son went to an Ivy league school for a year and it totally burned him out. Came back home, doing community college for a couple of years and will finish out at GMU. He's so much happier since he made the move. The Harvards and MITs of the world are definitely not for everyone.

 

[efil4stnias]

Of course everyone is free to leave Yale if they so choose - in fact I know of a family from SC whose child transferred from Harvard(!) to Clemson this year for this exact reason, and the kid is 1000% happier. True story. And its sort of my point - the smarty-pants schools are shooting themselves in the foot. I'm sure they will survive but its going to have an impact, just like k-12 closures and remote learning is going to have an impact.

My oldest is a college kid at a top liberal arts college and their 2020-21 school year was like this (all online, lockdowns/roving campus cops writing up students without masks, expulsions for "illegal gatherings") and it was a disaster. Students and parents revolted and eventually the board stepped in to right the ship. But she basically got zero out of her freshman year of college. This year has been as close to normal as can be and it's been like night and day.

My HS junior has excellent grades and resume and wont even look at any school that is north of Virginia or west of Texas. He's seen these same things happening to his sibling and older peers and is not willing to risk it.

She was a freshman...she still has 3 ( or 6 more years if like me LOLOL ) of school left. She can still pledge a sorority. She can still attend functions going forward.

Now, if your complaint is with what you paid for by way of tuition, and not getting the "full experience" - i understand that. We went thru similar with 2019-2020 High School year ( Junior year for our oldest ) . I had a real issue with the fact that we paid, in advance, full tuition only to have them on lock down/virtual learning from MArch 10, 2020 thru May 22nd 2020. They went virtual, so i understood that a good portion of tuition would be lost, but expected some sort of pro-rata return because we ultimately send our kid(s) to a certain institution for much more than just the "book" aspect. Shoot, the WEBSITE brags about it lol.

But then i step back and understand that teachers are salaried. Some thru contractual agreements. I bet most of the school purchasing ( breakfast/lunch ) was contractual and they werent going to get out of those either without litigation.

IT took me a while to get over the aspect of all that. What i quickly saw was just how resilient the kids where. Zoom "parties" on Fri/Sat nights....movie night...one would play movie, rest would watch on Zoom. Hang out with each other social distanced etc. etc. My child just fine. I suspect many are.



But then there are those whose kids arent fine, right? Dealing with whatever issues this presented them.

Sounds like COVID decisions.

This was a mess on a global scale. Hopefully has awakened the powers to understand just what a novel virus can do and be better prepared.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

She was a freshman...she still has 3 ( or 6 more years if like me LOLOL ) of school left. She can still pledge a sorority. She can still attend functions going forward.

Now, if your complaint is with what you paid for by way of tuition, and not getting the "full experience" - i understand that. We went thru similar with 2019-2020 High School year ( Junior year for our oldest ) . I had a real issue with the fact that we paid, in advance, full tuition only to have them on lock down/virtual learning from MArch 10, 2020 thru May 22nd 2020. They went virtual, so i understood that a good portion of tuition would be lost, but expected some sort of pro-rata return because we ultimately send our kid(s) to a certain institution for much more than just the "book" aspect. Shoot, the WEBSITE brags about it lol.

But then i step back and understand that teachers are salaried. Some thru contractual agreements. I bet most of the school purchasing ( breakfast/lunch ) was contractual and they werent going to get out of those either without litigation.

IT took me a while to get over the aspect of all that. What i quickly saw was just how resilient the kids where. Zoom "parties" on Fri/Sat nights....movie night...one would play movie, rest would watch on Zoom. Hang out with each other social distanced etc. etc. My child just fine. I suspect many are.



But then there are those whose kids arent fine, right? Dealing with whatever issues this presented them.

Sounds like COVID decisions.

This was a mess on a global scale. Hopefully has awakened the powers to understand just what a novel virus can do and be better prepared.

I definitely got ripped off but the larger concern is that our next generation of doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc. are all going to be at least 1 year dumber and saddled with more mental/emotional problems than those that came before because of our decisions around schools.

 

[efil4stnias]

I definitely got ripped off but the larger concern is that our next generation of doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc. are all going to be at least 1 year dumber and saddled with more mental/emotional problems than those that came before because of our decisions around schools.

Nah i dont buy it. Well adjusted kids do well adjusted things.

Its been a minute since my freshman year but i can assure you there was NOTHING that year provided me with outside of football tailgates, my pledge class and the stark reality that i was gonna have to transfer out if i wanted to graduate because there was entirely too much partying happening.

Those kids didnt lose a year unless they wanted to lose a year.

At least they will have the rest of their lives to sort out their feelings/issues.

many dont have that opportunity unfortunately. You are approaching this with a very narrow view. Widen the lens just a bit.

So when they are grandparents, they can replace " when i was your age we walked 10 miles, barefoot, in snow" with " when i was your age we woke at 845 logged on, and did school work from our bed".

 

[brandon8283]

School Closures Were a Catastrophe. Progressives Still Haven’t Reckoned With It.

If you don’t diagnose your error, you might repeat it.

nymag.com

As a progressive, I was saying this back at the beginning of the delta wave. With hindsight, it was completely unnecessary to close schools in March 2020 in Mississippi just because there were literally single-digit cases popping in the state. If there was ever a time to close schools (which would really have been just a delayed opening) in our state, it was right at the beginning of august of 2021, which corresponded with the beginning of school and a peaking delta wave. We really lost teachers at that point in time.

But we didn’t have hindsight in March 2020, so I definitely don’t fault decision-makers for erring on the side of student safety. But those that kept schools closed for the entire 2020-2021 school year made a decision that’s really hard to justify.

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

Nah i dont buy it. Well adjusted kids do well adjusted things.

Its been a minute since my freshman year but i can assure you there was NOTHING that year provided me with outside of football tailgates, my pledge class and the stark reality that i was gonna have to transfer out if i wanted to graduate because there was entirely too much partying happening.

Those kids didnt lose a year unless they wanted to lose a year.

At least they will have the rest of their lives to sort out their feelings/issues.

many dont have that opportunity unfortunately. You are approaching this with a very narrow view. Widen the lens just a bit.

So when they are grandparents, they can replace " when i was your age we walked 10 miles, barefoot, in snow" with " when i was your age we woke at 845 logged on, and did school work from our bed".

I understand, but there is already a crap ton of evidence that our covid school policy has done some major damage and the spike in mental health problems among kids is also pretty well established. That is my wide lens view - derailing a year-plus of school at every level and masking young kids (going on 2+ years in some places) is going to have long term impacts across the larger population. Kids are resilient but they aren't immune to these impacts (which may not even present themselves until you start cognitive testing, etc)

My narrow-lens view (my own kids) is taking that knowledge and trying to make up for it as best I can but I'm fortunately in a position where I have some resources to throw at the problem.

 

[St. Widge]

I understand, but there is already a crap ton of evidence that our covid school policy has done some major damage and the spike in mental health problems among kids is also pretty well established. That is my wide lens view - derailing a year-plus of school at every level and masking young kids (going on 2+ years in some places) is going to have long term impacts across the larger population. Kids are resilient but they aren't immune to these impacts (which may not even present themselves until you start cognitive testing, etc)

My narrow-lens view (my own kids) is taking that knowledge and trying to make up for it as best I can but I'm fortunately in a position where I have some resources to throw at the problem.

The unknown is what psychological damage and loss of learning would have happened if we had not closed schools? Would it have been worse than what has happened now? I also think how much "psychological damage" was done, depends greatly on the kids and I tend to think you are overstating how much damages was done. My 18 year-old daughter and her friends all seem perfectly fine and that includes some who has psychological issues before this and some who have always been well adjusted. I'm sure some kids have suffered negative side effects, but some may have been much worse off going to physical school with the threats and result of COVID exposure.

As far as our future being "one year dumber" I think that's a way overreaction. The first year of college is more or less a review of the end of high school but in a new social environment. They have plenty of time to make up and learn what they lost in terms of academics and social skills.

In the end, no matter what was done, this generation of kids were going to have to deal with the negatives of COVID, just like we all do. Some will have issues as a result, some will end up with little effects, and some will end up stronger for knowing how to deal with adversity at a young age with hopefully no actual consequences beyond that had to go to school online. I mean, this is a generation that mostly communicates using phones and the internet.

 

[efil4stnias]

I understand, but there is already a crap ton of evidence that our covid school policy has done some major damage and the spike in mental health problems among kids is also pretty well established. That is my wide lens view - derailing a year-plus of school at every level and masking young kids (going on 2+ years in some places) is going to have long term impacts across the larger population. Kids are resilient but they aren't immune to these impacts (which may not even present themselves until you start cognitive testing, etc)

My narrow-lens view (my own kids) is taking that knowledge and trying to make up for it as best I can but I'm fortunately in a position where I have some resources to throw at the problem.

So was the school policy the root cause of the mental health issues or did it simply reveal the issue sooner rather than later?

For me its the latter. Those issues were there just hiding in plain sight while the world turned. Now, they are evident and can be addressed accordingly.

I dont think that several weeks ( or months in some cases ) of virtual school had an impact like you say unless those children were already predisposed to having some issues. For whatever reason.