COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) [over 150.000,000 US cases (est.), 6,422,520 US hospitilizations, 1,148,691 US deaths.] (6 Viewers)

[SharonT]

Where to start...

You know there's an attempt to manipulate when the same people who are now faulting the schools/teachers for closing schools, claiming irreparable damage and emotional harm, are the ones usually singing the praises of online charters and homeschooling. So, which is it? Do you harm your child by removing them from public schools?

And does walking into a school 5 days a week remove all the stress and danger and fear of living through a world-wide pandemic in which you watch family members suffer, deal with unemployment, etc.? No.

Before I would listen to any politician or even public figure's opinion on this subject, I would consider their position on mental health funding for the past 20 or so years. On poverty, on privatization, support of neighborhood schools. If they haven't been all in, then why the sudden interest? What is to gain, besides diversion and division?

And realistically, are they conducting their interviews and other business from home? Or are they locked in a 20x20 unventilated room with 30 maskless kids all day, while the community spread is at 30% positivity rate? Do the people spouting this have any idea about what actually can and cannot be controlled within a school system?

tldr: virus bad; schools not magic

 

[superchuck500]

Where to start...

You know there's an attempt to manipulate when the same people who are now faulting the schools/teachers for closing schools, claiming irreparable damage and emotional harm, are the ones usually singing the praises of online charters and homeschooling. So, which is it? Do you harm your child by removing them from public schools?

And does walking into a school 5 days a week remove all the stress and danger and fear of living through a world-wide pandemic in which you watch family members suffer, deal with unemployment, etc.? No.

Before I would listen to any politician or even public figure's opinion on this subject, I would consider their position on mental health funding for the past 20 or so years. On poverty, on privatization, support of neighborhood schools. If they haven't been all in, then why the sudden interest? What is to gain, besides diversion and division?

And realistically, are they conducting their interviews and other business from home? Or are they locked in a 20x20 unventilated room with 30 maskless kids all day, while the community spread is at 30% positivity rate? Do the people spouting this have any idea about what actually can and cannot be controlled within a school system?

tldr: virus bad; schools not magic

Yeah I think there’s some perspective missing from that piece. For example it doesn’t really account for risk to the adults in schools. I would think that any objective summary would include that discussion - a lot of teachers died in states that tried to maximize in-person learning. Of course tracing the infection to school is probably impossible from a data standpoint but it’s a meaningful part of the issue.

 

[DaveXA]

Yeah I think there’s some perspective missing from that piece. For example it doesn’t really account for risk to the adults in schools. I would think that any objective summary would include that discussion - a lot of teachers died in states that tried to maximize in-person learning. Of course tracing the infection to school is probably impossible from a data standpoint but it’s a meaningful part of the issue.

Yeah, our school district was one that did the remote learning from early on and didn't return to in person until the beginning of this school year, yet at least 3 that I'm aware of died from Covid when they were doing remote learning.

That said, I have questions about how effective their policy has been. I think there's a lot we can learn from this last couple of years and hopefully we'll all do better in the future.

 

[St. Widge]

Yeah I think there’s some perspective missing from that piece. For example it doesn’t really account for risk to the adults in schools. I would think that any objective summary would include that discussion - a lot of teachers died in states that tried to maximize in-person learning. Of course tracing the infection to school is probably impossible from a data standpoint but it’s a meaningful part of the issue.

The piece also continues what I think it the terrible societal trend, specifically on this topic, of categorizing things based on political positions. Public health should never be political. Nor should the welfare and education of children. But, that article, and many others like it treat all topics as political and a question of which political group gets blame/credit. Things like education, child welfare, and public health shouldn't be a political football game where we keep score.

 

[Optimus Prime]

HONG KONG — Hong Kong has asked pet shops and owners to hand over close to 2,000 hamsters for culling by authorities, after 11 of the small rodents tested positive for the coronavirus in a pet shop.

The territory has also suspended the import of small animals.
Authorities announced the decision Tuesday after the city’s health experts found two groups of hamsters, which originated from the Netherlands and arrived in Hong Kong on Dec. 22 and Jan. 7, to be “high-risk” for carrying the coronavirus.

The hamsters turned over by pet owners will be killed to “cut the transmission chain,” health officials said.

“Evidence shows that the hamsters are infected with the COVID-19 virus. It is impossible to quarantine and observe each of them and their incubation period could be long,” said Leung Siu-fai, director of the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department……..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/18/covid-hong-kong-hamsters/

 

[Optimus Prime]

Rona MacInnes, 54, was determined to do everything possible to protect her elderly mother as her family prepared to gather for Christmas in Pennington, N.J.


With her son returning from study in Dublin, MacInnes hoped serial at-home coronavirus tests would catch a coronavirus infection he might bring home.

The college junior would take six rapid tests before the holiday, all of which returned negative results. But it would become clear only later — after he had spent time with his grandmother — that he had been infected the whole time.

Several days after gathering for Christmas, he got a positive result back from the first available lab-based PCR test he was able to book.


The result floored and frightened MacInnes, creating fresh worries about her 80-year-old mother. The family quickly booked an appointment to get a PCR test for her mother that came back negative.

“Thankfully none of us have developed symptoms,” MacInnes said.


The promise of at-home tests to tell people whether they are infectious has been undercut not just by anecdotal reports like MacInnes’s, but also by preliminary data that suggests some of the rapid tests may be less sensitive to the now-dominant omicron variant.

Studies suggest they detect infections most reliably two to five days after exposure in people with high viral loads who are experiencing symptoms, which is why people are urged to take the tests serially. But even then, they are not foolproof.

And for those who have taken pains to find out whether their sniffle and sore throat might be harbingers of covid-19 to protect others, contradictory test results are often dismaying……..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/17/rapid-coronavirus-tests-accuracy-omicron/

 

[brandon8283]

The piece also continues what I think it the terrible societal trend, specifically on this topic, of categorizing things based on political positions. Public health should never be political. Nor should the welfare and education of children. But, that article, and many others like it treat all topics as political and a question of which political group gets blame/credit. Things like education, child welfare, and public health shouldn't be a political football game where we keep score.

I’m gonna push back on this a bit.

I agree with you that public health and the welfare and education of children should not be political issues.

That implies that you (hopefully) believe that these are just understood to be good things that we as a society should do.

It’s important to point out that there is one political party that agrees with you, and one that vehemently does not agree with you.

I also disagree that we shouldn’t keep score on these issues. Keeping score on who was right and who was wrong, and who made good decisions and who made bad ones, is how we inform our future votes. If you’re not keeping score of which party is making good decisions, you’re not doing your part as a citizen to be an informed voter.

 

[SWJJ]

The insistence of "in-person education" is NOT about learning loss, but it is due to American's capitalistic society conflating child care and education.

The truth is that virtual learning SHOULD HAVE reasonably been a successful way to continue education while reducing the potential for spreading the disease. However we have treated internet connectivity as a commodity, when in today's day and age it should absolutely be considered a utility.


Colleges have successful online classes that are robust and rigorous. As a matter of fact many school districts and states (Including Louisiana) have fully online options for students even before the pandemic.


People can say what they want about it not spreading through children, but what about the teachers? We have a massive teacher shortage right now. Do you have any idea how many classes are meeting in gyms and auditoriums around the country right now because there is no content teacher to teach or even sub in that class?

People who think canceling schools was a "mistake" are so far removed from the nuance of what is happening on campuses in America right now it's ridiculous.


If you want to talk about learning loss, do you have ANY IDEA how much time is spent in a 50 minute class setting to take everyone's temp, then log that, fight students to get them to comply with mask mandates, then stop the lesson early so there is time to sterilize the surfaces.


If we learned anything about education during the pandemic, I hope we learned (and there is empirical data to support this) that internet access should be available to all K-12 students, devices should be available to all k-12 students, and America thinks of teachers as baby-sitters.


But we didn't learn anything.

Our education system was broken before the pandemic, students from families that have means, can help with, and care about prioritizing the education of their children were significantly more successful academically, than students that come from families that do not have means, are unavailable, or don't prioritize education.

The early data that I have seen suggests that the gap between "haves" and "have nots" widened significantly during the pandemic.

 

[SWJJ]

Some peer-reviewed reading on the education discussion:

NCES Blog | Students’ Internet Access Before and During the Coronavirus Pandemic by Household Socioeconomic Status

The pandemic has focused attention on the resources needed for students to engage equitably in educa

nces.ed.gov

Apart but Connected: Online Tutoring and Student Outcomes during the COVID-19 Pandemic

In response to the COVID-19 outbreak, the governments of most countries ordered the closure of schools, potentially exacerbating existing learning gaps. This paper evaluates the effectiveness of an intervention implemented in Italian middle schools that provides free individual tutoring online...

www.hks.harvard.edu

Effects of COVID-19-Related School Closures on Student Achievement-A Systematic Review - PMC

The COVID-19 pandemic led to numerous governments deciding to close schools for several weeks in spring 2020. Empirical evidence on the impact of COVID-19-related school closures on academic achievement is only just emerging. The present work aimed ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[SWJJ]

I also question anyone who says that closing schools was "unnecessary" as international studies and analysis of government interventions to determine what was most and least effective found that closing schools was one of the most effective measure at preventing the spread of the disease:

Ranking the effectiveness of worldwide COVID-19 government interventions - Nature Human Behaviour

Analysing over 50,000 government interventions in more than 200 countries, Haug et al. find that combinations of softer measures, such as risk communication or those increasing healthcare capacity, can be almost as effective as disruptive lockdowns.

www.nature.com

 

[Nisey55]

HONG KONG — Hong Kong has asked pet shops and owners to hand over close to 2,000 hamsters for culling by authorities, after 11 of the small rodents tested positive for the coronavirus in a pet shop.

The territory has also suspended the import of small animals.
Authorities announced the decision Tuesday after the city’s health experts found two groups of hamsters, which originated from the Netherlands and arrived in Hong Kong on Dec. 22 and Jan. 7, to be “high-risk” for carrying the coronavirus.

The hamsters turned over by pet owners will be killed to “cut the transmission chain,” health officials said.

“Evidence shows that the hamsters are infected with the COVID-19 virus. It is impossible to quarantine and observe each of them and their incubation period could be long,” said Leung Siu-fai, director of the Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department……..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/18/covid-hong-kong-hamsters/

Just to lighten our day for a minute, the other day I was placing a grocery order online and wanted some deli meats, when I typed in smoked ham the suggestion popped up smoked hamsters.
I laughed for way too long.

 

[sfidc3]

However we have treated internet connectivity as a commodity, when in today's day and age it should absolutely be considered a utility.

This is a great line....nice post, I'm pretty much in full agreement....

 

[DaveXA]

I also question anyone who says that closing schools was "unnecessary" as international studies and analysis of government interventions to determine what was most and least effective found that closing schools was one of the most effective measure at preventing the spread of the disease:

Ranking the effectiveness of worldwide COVID-19 government interventions - Nature Human Behaviour

Analysing over 50,000 government interventions in more than 200 countries, Haug et al. find that combinations of softer measures, such as risk communication or those increasing healthcare capacity, can be almost as effective as disruptive lockdowns.

www.nature.com

I don't think it's a question of closing schools, but rather a question of how long they should have remained closed. It's clear that we're well past closing schools at this point. I do think that closing schools and doing remote learning has to be considered if we face a similar pandemic situation, but that would all depend on whether it's effective in combating the pandemic.

While I acknowledge closing schools had been necessary, that came at great cost to some children who don't do well without the personal touch and accountability that comes with in person teaching. While my 3 older kids have adjusted reasonably well to remote learning, my youngest daughter has struggled pretty terribly with school over the last year and a half. She hasn't been the same since returning to school when it reopened and I'm not sure why that is. But it clearly started when they went to remote learning. I can imagine she's not the only one who has struggled with the shift to remote, then back to in person classes.

They did remote learning for a year and a half. That's a long, long time for them. My daughter dealt with depression and grief from losing a teacher (Covid victim) she was very close to. She actually dreaded going back to school, yet was confused because she wanted to go to school and be with her friends. That's no small thing.

None if this is black and white and we need to find a healthy balance going forward.

 

[Sailorsaint]

My kids were already graduated and attending college when this all started. Tell me, were the remote learning classes handled via Zoom? Or were the assignments just handed out, a reading assignment given to explain the lesson, and the child was left to either figuring it out on their own or having a parent help?

 

[SWJJ]

I don't think it's a question of closing schools, but rather a question of how long they should have remained closed. It's clear that we're well past closing schools at this point. I do think that closing schools and doing remote learning has to be considered if we face a similar pandemic situation, but that would all depend on whether it's effective in combating the pandemic.

While I acknowledge closing schools had been necessary, that came at great cost to some children who don't do well without the personal touch and accountability that comes with in person teaching. While my 3 older kids have adjusted reasonably well to remote learning, my youngest daughter has struggled pretty terribly with school over the last year and a half. She hasn't been the same since returning to school when it reopened and I'm not sure why that is. But it clearly started when they went to remote learning. I can imagine she's not the only one who has struggled with the shift to remote, then back to in person classes.

They did remote learning for a year and a half. That's a long, long time for them. My daughter dealt with depression and grief from losing a teacher (Covid victim) she was very close to. She actually dreaded going back to school, yet was confused because she wanted to go to school and be with her friends. That's no small thing.

None if this is black and white and we need to find a healthy balance going forward.

A HUGE part of the problems have been poor leadership in education. There are absolutely different skills and strategies in being an effective and engaging classroom teacher, and being an effective and engaging virtual teacher. These skills were not considered in many cases when deciding which teachers would do what type of education. To follow up with that very little energy and efforts were made to teach these skills, and many teachers felt like they had little to no support with learning these skills, student and parent accountability, technical troubles, or even emotional/mental health issues.

You are absolutely 100% correct when you say it's not black and white, we could have done a lot of things differently, and better, but taking the position that "closing schools was a mistake" is completely inaccurate and narrowminded.