COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (4 Viewers)

[Saint_Ward]

Yeah, I don't know your financial situation and I wasn't directing my post at any particular person or personal situation. But what I had in mind is people making $80,000k+ per year over a period of time who are living paycheck to paycheck. There's no excuse for that.

Some of that is cost of living, but yes, your point is valid.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Is that directed at me and the discussion of finances, etc.? Or something above my post?

Just a guess, but i think he was referring to the last 2 or 3 pages of this thread in general.

But boy, it’s really hard to discuss actual tangible policies and consequences, literal life and death stuff that is occurring in real time due precisely to what elected officials are doing, or not doing.. or saying, or not saying.. without being perceived as ‘political’.. But that’s where we are in America, i guess.. Wouldnt want to be a moderator right now, becuase it’s almost impossible to have a real discussion since politics right now is inextricably intermingled with ‘politics.’

 

[Goatman Saint]

The deaths from a degradation of the health care system is a real thing, I dont understand why so many have such a strong opinion without having some kind of assumption or connection to the medical field. Yes, COVID-19 is real, but so is minor acute care that has gone far too long without proper care that has turned into severe cases; that is not accounting the severe acute cases right out of the gate that went far too long without medical care. These people stayed away for many reasons either out of fear or being told not to come in and some happened to take it a little to literal. My clients that I talk with week after week at the hospitals are providing this feedback in the emergent care sector, my direct friends that I have whom work at hospitals are reporting this, these observations are at both a rural and metro level.



Agreed, for the reasons above is why I have a problem with the blanket assumptions of the NY 3000k plus deaths added in one day. Sure more than likely most were COVID-19 but they have the swabs to make that decsion of death at a later date to be determined, for an accurate count and work toward the studies of the effects of COVID-19.

why would anyone want to go if they don’t have to? I mean we all see the media stories of how health care providers are wearing home Meade masks, heck just a couple weeks ago a nurse from one of the hospitals here (using the term nurse loosely here) posted her mask she had to wear for a month as that’s how often they got them.
Now, I have 2 inguinal hernias. Now, being on forced vacation, would be the perfect time to have them fixed. But, there is no way in hell thats going to happen. While I’m no fan of catching Covid, I’m also not a fan of being touched and examined by a staff that seems to think a month old mask is a hygienic thing. The medical field is doing themselves no favors right now with this.
Also about the deaths. One of my wife’s coworkers aunts died yesterday. She felt bad Saturday, a little worse with a fever Sunday, but not too horrible. Found dead Monday morning. She was part of one of the slaughter houses that’s being ripped up by covid. So, when some say at home deaths increase and try not to blame on covid it really is an interesting narrative. Some are dying like her, very quick. Some have heart symptoms and wait it out and end up dying. Same with strokes, and both those conditions are at way higher risk with Covid cases. So, I’m pretty sure I agree with those higher numbers out of New York.

 

[Bayouboy]

Yeah, I don't know your financial situation and I wasn't directing my post at any particular person or personal situation. But what I had in mind is people making $80,000k+ per year over a period of time who are living paycheck to paycheck. There's no excuse for that.

If there's private school and one or two teenage drivers, $80,000 doesn't get as far as you think. Your point is well taken and valid, but cost of living is a real thing.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Just a guess, but i think he was referring to the last 2 or 3 pages of this thread in general.

But boy, it’s really hard to discuss actual tangible policies and consequences, literal life and death stuff that is occurring in real time due precisely to what elected officials are doing, or not doing.. or saying, or not saying.. without being perceived as ‘political’.. But that’s where we are in America, i guess.. Wouldnt want to be a moderator right now, becuase it’s almost impossible to have a real discussion since politics right now is inextricably intermingled with ‘politics.’

It is difficult, but I think a general rule would be - stick very closely to the mechanics of a policy, and potential ramifications without getting into broader commentary. Ie, don't allude to the stupidity of Repulicans, or fear mongering Democrats, etc.

I would also suggest steering away from speculation about motives - ie, Republicans governors are trying to open to soon to make Trump look good/or they don't care about people/etc. Likewise on the reverse.

So, I think saying - "X county opening now is a bad idea b/c case numbers are rising and it's likely to cause an uncontrolled outbreak that will hurt the economy and kill people" is fine. But saying, "anti-science Republicans are going to destroy us all because they are too invested in making Trump look good" is probably not.

 

[itztime]

why would anyone want to go if they don’t have to? I mean we all see the media stories of how health care providers are wearing home Meade masks, heck just a couple weeks ago a nurse from one of the hospitals here (using the term nurse loosely here) posted her mask she had to wear for a month as that’s how often they got them.

I'm only giving you direct observations, where the clinical teams in their opinion felt that these folks went a little to long without proper care. The reasoning was either they couldn't come in because of the rules in place or fear of coming in for treatment.

Let's be honest, we all know that grandma, uncle or friend that should have gone top see a doctor but was dismissive perhaps, now there is a reason why they either cant go or have an excuse of fear not to go.

Also about the deaths. One of my wife’s coworkers aunts died yesterday. She felt bad Saturday, a little worse with a fever Sunday, but not too horrible. Found dead Monday morning. She was part of one of the slaughter houses that’s being ripped up by covid. So, when some say at home deaths increase and try not to blame on covid it really is an interesting narrative. Some are dying like her, very quick. Some have heart symptoms and wait it out and end up dying. Same with strokes, and both those conditions are at way higher risk with Covid cases. So, I’m pretty sure I agree with those higher numbers out of New York.

Im not taking that away but there is also other deaths happening and Critical Care being neglected.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Some of that is cost of living, but yes, your point is valid.

This is another whole thing that really grinds my gears. Why are financial incentives and thresholds not based on cost of living? It's absurd that the max unemployment benefit for someone in New Orleans is the same as for someone in New Iberia.

It's just crazy and defies all common sense that it's not.

But yeah, I totally feel the pain there. Austin in the last 20 years has gone from reasonable to very high COL. My home value has doubled in 7 years. We probably couldn't afford to buy our own house today.

 

[superchuck500]

If there's private school and one or two teenage drivers, $80,000 doesn't get as far as you think. Your point is well taken and valid, but cost of living is a real thing.

It doesn't even require private school to stretch $80K - it's all very locality dependent and the biggest driving costs are housing, healthcare, and transportation. And if childcare is in the mix, it's a budget buster.

For example, a family with $80K in income in Lawton, Oklahoma would need to make almost $118K in Atlanta to have the same exact budget arrangements. That's a huge difference.

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/lawton-ok/atlanta-ga/80000

 

[Loose Cannon]

I truly dont know how a family of 4 earning less than $100,000k DOESNT live paycheck to paycheck. It has to be quite hard to earn a decent wage and still feel that your accomplishments are "less than" because you dont have a blasted Can-Am, set of 3 Yeti coolers, 3 pairs of Maui Jims for diff occaisions with the frat wraps that float ( just in case you drop them from your pleasure craft )

I live in an area where this is RAMPANT. Had an old neighbor that took up tennis. Within 2 weeks of STARTING, he had 2 $300 racqeuets, the $200 Babolat bag, the gear, the $150 kswiss shoes....and couldnt hit the broadside of a barn 3 times in a row.

LOL. Bit of a tangent but I couldn't agree with this more. My wife is super irritated because her sister and her husband informed her this weekend that they are building a custom home that costs significantly more than ours and will be uber-modern Chip and Joanna Gaines approved.

They are on actual food stamps right now. She is unemployed currently and he is a not very successful realtor. And even at full employment, they make probably 30% of what we do combined.

My wife was on the warpath this weekend - they have a $50,000 truck, a $50,000 conversion van (they have four kids), and will have a more expensive house than us. We drive Hyundais - both are paid off. LOL.

There was no listening to reason; that our house is in a much, much more desirable location (MUCH), that they will likely not end up being successful in that house as history has shown, amongst other huge gaps in lifestyle and future lifestyle that I won't specifically call out because I don't want to be a douche. She just knows that her sister will have shiplap and a modern farmhouse look and she can't see past that. Cracks me up.

I mostly hung out with the dog in the game room and drank booze for all of Saturday. 5 years of marriage. It took me awhile, but I'm learning.

 

[0rion]

Wow, that would seem to be rather major news. We're not talking about cases on the coasts, but very much inland and north. These days, that's not eye-opening, but back in January this stuff was "just getting here" or so we thought. It seems that it has been around and more widespread than we realized. I'd see that as good news because it means more people have likely been exposed and didn't even know it.

It really fits the narrative that my daughter has had it and maybe our oldest son. Negative for flu but if you asked them what was wrong they described flu symptoms. The 2 things that didn't fit were no cough and the timing was earlier than we were supposed to have it. I guess they could've had it with no cough and it was the end of Feb. so the timing works now. I can't wait until we can all get antibody testing.

 

[Optimus Prime]

We’ll be ready to re-open when bus drivers can tell riders to wear a mask and not get spit upon.

We’ll be ready when McDonalds workers can say the dining room is closed without being shot.

We’ll be ready when park rangers can ask people to social distance without being shoved in a lake.

We’ll be ready when store employees can ask people to wear a mask before entering without being killed.

We’ll be ready when we can show we can listen and follow safety guidelines.

I don’t know when the virus will be ready for us to re-open but clearly we are not ready.

Freedom is a responsibility not just an unearned privilege to do as we please.

We are acting like a bunch of spoiled whiny brats who are more than willing to hurt others and put others at risk.

We’ll be ready when we treat each other with love and respect.

We are not ready.

- Rev. Stephen McKinney Whitaker

 

[superchuck500]

Wow, that would seem to be rather major news. We're not talking about cases on the coasts, but very much inland and north. These days, that's not eye-opening, but back in January this stuff was "just getting here" or so we thought. It seems that it has been around and more widespread than we realized. I'd see that as good news because it means more people have likely been exposed and didn't even know it.

Given that the virus arrived in the US from Asia and Europe by air travel, I'm not sure that the location (orientation to coasts) really matters all that much. Ohio has three major cities and a bunch of medium sized cities. It's not particularly surprising that someone could have flow into Ohio carrying the virus. January (late) matches up with the genome study so far.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Yeah, I don't know your financial situation and I wasn't directing my post at any particular person or personal situation. But what I had in mind is people making $80,000k+ per year over a period of time who are living paycheck to paycheck. There's no excuse for that.

How much of our economy is based on people doing exactly that though?

If everyone in the whole country decided at the same time that from now on they were going to live modestly within their means, and not do any frivolous spending until all their debt is paid off and they have a fund of at least 12 months worth of expenses in the bank what would the fallout of that be?

 

[Saint_Ward]

This is another whole thing that really grinds my gears. Why are financial incentives and thresholds not based on cost of living? It's absurd that the max unemployment benefit for someone in New Orleans is the same as for someone in New Iberia.

It's just crazy and defies all common sense that it's not.

But yeah, I totally feel the pain there. Austin in the last 20 years has gone from reasonable to very high COL. My home value has doubled in 7 years. We probably couldn't afford to buy our own house today.

Yup, and with Per Diem, the Federal Gov't has figured that out. It's just not applied anywhere else.

Anyway, that's a discussion worth having, but over at www.madaboutpolitics.com or the housing one can be a separate thread. That's my lament, as a non-home owner.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Came across this
=================

As of May 7, 2020, 76,503 Americans are confirmed dead of COVID-19. To put this in perspective:

• 58, 209 Americans died in the Vietnam War (1961-1975)
• 54, 246 Americans died in the Korean War (1950-1953)
• 25, 000 Americans died in the American Revolution (1775-1783)
• 15, 000 Americans died in the War of 1812 (1812-1815)
• 13, 283 Americans died in the Mexican-American War (1846-1848)
• 4,576 Americans died in the Iraq War (2003-2011)

Also: The annual number of deaths in the USA from infectious disease is about 75,000. That’s twelve months’ worth of deaths. We are slightly over the annual death count for infectious disease after only four months and seven days.

Don’t kid yourself that this is normal. This is not even remotely normal.