COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (3 Viewers)

[Saint_Ward]

Wow, that would seem to be rather major news. We're not talking about cases on the coasts, but very much inland and north. These days, that's not eye-opening, but back in January this stuff was "just getting here" or so we thought. It seems that it has been around and more widespread than we realized. I'd see that as good news because it means more people have likely been exposed and didn't even know it.

Not shocking at all when you think about aircraft routes. Even now, they are sanitizing them at night, with I think a quick wipe down between flights (may be enough). And passengers are doing a lot of their own cleaning, generally.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Part of the problem is that most Americans spend every penny they make and have no emergency savings. A lot of this "my freedom!" crap is code for "I'm financially irresponsible and don't have any cash reserves and I'm about to lose the McMansion and BMW that I shouldn't have bought on my salary to begin with!".

Same goes for businesses. Owners milk their businesses for every ounce of liquidity to buy the aforementioned McMansions and BMWs and don't leave anything in there for disasters or business interruptions. I don't think there should be any bailouts for any business of any size. And I think the income limit for personal bailouts was way too high. We as a society continue to encourage people to live beyond their means and act financially irresponsible. Why would anyone stop doing that if they know there's a bailout every time?

And the funny part is that right now a lot of the people panicking because they've been living beyond their means and a two month interruption in pay is disastrous are the "pick yourselves up by the bootstraps!" crowd. Huh.

It's not much, It's only about a full month of income, but I have that socked away, and I really only started in December, outside of a $500 emergency fund.

With being on part time and hopefully some unemployment benefits, along with cutting costs, I should be able to stretch it out for a few months. if the UE comes in, I may not have to dip into savings at all, with cost cuts.

My first question to our company leadership was about if our actions were due to cash flow or not having enough cash on hand. Didn't get a straight answer. Figured I wouldn't.

 

[Bayouboy]

Part of the problem is that most Americans spend every penny they make and have no emergency savings. A lot of this "my freedom!" crap is code for "I'm financially irresponsible and don't have any cash reserves and I'm about to lose the McMansion and BMW that I shouldn't have bought on my salary to begin with!".

Same goes for businesses. Owners milk their businesses for every ounce of liquidity to buy the aforementioned McMansions and BMWs and don't leave anything in there for disasters or business interruptions. I don't think there should be any bailouts for any business of any size. And I think the income limit for personal bailouts was way too high. We as a society continue to encourage people to live beyond their means and act financially irresponsible. Why would anyone stop doing that if they know there's a bailout every time?

And the funny part is that right now a lot of the people panicking because they've been living beyond their means and a two month interruption in pay is disastrous are the "pick yourselves up by the bootstraps!" crowd. Huh.

Before the pandemic hit, I read a sobering statistic. It read that half of working Americans did not have $500 in savings. So, if their car broke down and it was $600 to fix, they were forked. That's a whole lotta people literally living check to check.

 

[Loose Cannon]

It's not much, It's only about a full month of income, but I have that socked away, and I really only started in December, outside of a $500 emergency fund.

With being on part time and hopefully some unemployment benefits, along with cutting costs, I should be able to stretch it out for a few months. if the UE comes in, I may not have to dip into savings at all, with cost cuts.

My first question to our company leadership was about if our actions were due to cash flow or not having enough cash on hand. Didn't get a straight answer. Figured I wouldn't.

It's amazing that a certain archetype of person will look down on other people for not having 6 months of savings but then rush to bail out comapnies who don't have 6 months of savings because they're too big to fail.

I guess personal responsibility doesn't carry over to the people who run huge corporations.

 

[Loose Cannon]

It's not much, It's only about a full month of income, but I have that socked away, and I really only started in December, outside of a $500 emergency fund.

With being on part time and hopefully some unemployment benefits, along with cutting costs, I should be able to stretch it out for a few months. if the UE comes in, I may not have to dip into savings at all, with cost cuts.

My first question to our company leadership was about if our actions were due to cash flow or not having enough cash on hand. Didn't get a straight answer. Figured I wouldn't.

Yeah, I don't know your financial situation and I wasn't directing my post at any particular person or personal situation. But what I had in mind is people making $80,000k+ per year over a period of time who are living paycheck to paycheck. There's no excuse for that.

 

[efil4stnias]

It's amazing that a certain archetype of person will look down on other people for not having 6 months of savings but then rush to bail out comapnies who don't have 6 months of savings because they're too big to fail.

I guess personal responsibility doesn't carry over to the people who run huge corporations.

it never has and that was my angst( i posted exactly that- how can we be expected to save for 6 months yet companies like Boeing posting 2-3B per QUARTER cant come up with a "rainy day" account ) on the investment thread when bailouts were announced and some called for companies that took bailout $$$ to NEVER issue a dividend again ( Mark Cuban was quite vocal in this regard )

Its what you posited earlier, if we continue to bail out, you have removed the incentive to save. No need to, govt will come with some sort of relief.

That archetype is the "eff you socialist" that will immediately turn to govt after yelling that and ask " ok wheres my check? "

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

People (and companies) are really bad at risk assessment and mitigation.

Also general reminder to tone down political discussion

 

[RazorOye]

Also, the depression really didnt make as much an impact on minorities as they were repressed far more than they are now....the depression made less of a difference in their lifestyle

I'm not sure of the point of this, so I'm kinda making a guess. But, nevertheless, it also brings up something I think needs to be mentioned as we talk about re-opening. If we're talking about suicide or non-COVID deaths increasing during the pandemic, then we also need to talk about the role that race place in contributing to pandemic, COVID deaths - and those are statistically significant.

And if we do that, then I *definitely* do not think we are talking comparable rates of suicides to COVID-related deaths for African Americans.

They haven't been repressed in direct ways to the same extent as the Depression, but - as you point out - there are adverse effects.

And studies have shown that merely being black in America creates stress. It contributes to hypertension. Food deserts and nutrition becomes an issue for diabetes and hyperlipidemia. Heart disease is adversely impacted. Lack of health coverage and poor access to healthcare.

Here are the results from a study in New York COVID deaths and co-morbidities

And these happen, disproportiionately to blacks, merely by being black and living in the areas they've been largely - as a community - forced into living. This is a multi-generational phenomenon.

So I don't think that suicide deaths for blacks is going to even scratch the surface of the COVID-related deaths for blacks. They might not have been killing themselves at all back during the Depression because, in the words of Alabama, "Somebody told me Wall Street fell, but we were so poor that we couldn't tell"

While there might be, mathematically, more deaths by suicide now vs. then - and I'm not trying to minimize individual deaths by suicide - I don't think we're statistically in an area where it becomes comparable to COVID-related deaths.

And there is a strong sense among many that this call to open is to be interpreted as poor, black people being forced into positions of exposure to satisfy the wants and whims of a middle class who want more leisure options in this pandemic time.

There's something to that for a lot of people. All of this talk hits very differently and feels very different - it's something talked about up here. And I think it absolutely needs to be figured into the discussion.

We've already had a major school district here apologize to the way the plan rolled out has adversely impacted students of color.

 

[Loose Cannon]

People (and companies) are really bad at risk assessment and mitigation.

Also general reminder to tone down political discussion

Is that directed at me and the discussion of finances, etc.? Or something above my post?

 

[AARPSaint]

PA don't play.

The flip side is that many businesses were given waivers enabling them to stay open for reasons that were not clear. The criteria for granting these waivers were never made public, which created a lot of flak about favoritism, cronyism, and the like. I haven't researched this to any extent, but the lack of transparency issue was complained about in a town hall by my State Senator. Both he and Wolf are Democrats, by the way--so there's no partisan issue.

That's why transparency is important. Laws without rationales seem to cause resentment.

 

[efil4stnias]

Yeah, I don't know your financial situation and I wasn't directing my post at any particular person or personal situation. But what I had in mind is people making $80,000k+ per year over a period of time who are living paycheck to paycheck. There's no excuse for that.

prolly need to move this to another thread or investment thread in order to keep from hijacking this one.

I have plenty of thoughts on that.

first, cost of living. Depending on location that $80k + is not the same say in SF vs St. Louis. Second, this "american dream" has morphed from home ownership to "how many toys can i acquire to exhibit my wealth". Many have become peacocks and feel the need to show off thru obtaining items how rich or well off they are.

I truly dont know how a family of 4 earning less than $100,000k DOESNT live paycheck to paycheck. It has to be quite hard to earn a decent wage and still feel that your accomplishments are "less than" because you dont have a blasted Can-Am, set of 3 Yeti coolers, 3 pairs of Maui Jims for diff occaisions with the frat wraps that float ( just in case you drop them from your pleasure craft )

I live in an area where this is RAMPANT. Had an old neighbor that took up tennis. Within 2 weeks of STARTING, he had 2 $300 racqeuets, the $200 Babolat bag, the gear, the $150 kswiss shoes....and couldnt hit the broadside of a barn 3 times in a row.

But damn if he didnt look the part.

That journey lasted all of 12 months for him. Moved on to golf.

 

[efil4stnias]

Is that directed at me and the discussion of finances, etc.? Or something above my post?

i think me. lol

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Is that directed at me and the discussion of finances, etc.? Or something above my post?

Not directed at anyone, just a general warning that this can easily drift to a topic more suited for political discussion.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Going to share this link to a blog by a doctor - it's a bit lengthy, but it is a great resource for information about how the disease is spread and prevention measures in places like work environments, outside jogging, going to a restaurant, shopping at a mall, etc.

Effective mix of science and practical application, imo

I think it's worth the read and maybe bookmarking or printing up as a reference. I expect I will be coming back to it more than once, personally.

And it is being updated, too - as recently as an hour ago of my posting here

The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them

Please read this link to learn about the author and background to these posts. It seems many people are breathing some relief, and I’m not sure why. An epidemic curve has a relatively predictable upslope and once the peak is reached, the back slope can also be predicted. We have robust data from...

www.erinbromage.com

Brilliant. Very well written. Uses lots of good practical data.

So, anyone rushing to open a Gym, that's going to be a major risk point. It's the breathing, stupid. Not the touching.

I like her final message.

As we are allowed to move around our communities more freely and be in contact with more people in more places more regularly, the risks to ourselves and our family are significant. Even if you are gung-ho for reopening and resuming business as usual, do your part and wear a mask to reduce what you release into the environment. It will help everyone, including your own business.

 

[bonnjer]

Not shocking at all when you think about aircraft routes. Even now, they are sanitizing them at night, with I think a quick wipe down between flights (may be enough). And passengers are doing a lot of their own cleaning, generally.

Right, I agree it's not shocking, but for so long we've heard "oh it arrived here on the west coast and New York no earlier than January." And in all that time, the focus was on the hot spots on the coasts with gradual movement into the core of the country. Now we have this report. I'm just saying that more people have been exposed to this stuff than we know and for longer, too.