COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (4 Viewers)

[Dago]

No. You said that economic experts disagree that the U.S. has the resources to prevent us from reaching the tipping point but doesn't have the will to do it. I'm asking you who said that?

I simply googled US economy breaking point and got many major news outlets talking about the US economy and European economy

Now please explain how giving money to individuals keeps businesses that arent allowed to operate from shutting down

 

[St. Widge]

So you are asking me to disprove something you havent provided any evidence would work?

By the way, I never stated that economists said your particular idea wouldnt work. They are saying that our economy is reaching a breaking point

I don't know maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. If all you were saying is the economy is reaching a breaking point, I have no disagreement with that. Stuff tends to get heated fast these days so if I was overly aggressive or antagonizing, I apologize.

 

[Dago]

Paul Krugman is one. Richard Wolff, Stephanie Kelton, Randall Wray.

And do they explain how giving money to people keeps businesses that arent allowed to be open from shutting down? Or what happens when we reopen and all those jobs are gone?

 

[Dago]

I don't know maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. If all you were saying is the economy is reaching a breaking point, I have no disagreement with that. Stuff tends to get heated fast these days so if I was overly aggressive or antagonizing, I apologize.

Yes that is what I am saying lol

 

[FootballLady]

And do they explain how giving money to people keeps businesses that arent allowed to be open from shutting down? Or what happens when we reopen and all those jobs are gone?

One assumes that the people who own those business are also recieving funds.
But, by all means, I invite you to read them. Kelton, in particular, is an interesting read.

 

[St. Widge]

Now please explain how giving money to individuals keeps businesses that arent allowed to operate from shutting down

For the ones that have to completely shutdown, the government would have to just give them the money they need to keep paying their fixed costs like leases, revolving credit debt, etc. Not enough to make a profit, but enough to stay afloat and get back up and running when we can truly open up again. And, of course, the owners who aren't able to make a profit would get a stimulus to allow them to feed and shelter themselves and their family until they can run their business again.

I don't anticipate a lot of businesses that can't operate at all if people would be reasonable in their actions, but that's really the rub. And, I think it's likely going to have to be done even if we follow a reasonable phase in plan.

 

[Dago]

One assumes that the people who own those business are also recieving funds.
But, by all means, I invite you to read them. Kelton, in particular, is an interesting read.

The numbers you have posted would not keep the average small business afloat

And if the person uses the funds to live on to keep the business open (if it were enough which it is not), then what money would they have left to live on?

 

[FootballLady]

Payments for people would be in conjunction with payments for small businesses, not instead of.

 

[Dago]

For the ones that have to completely shutdown, the government would have to just give them the money they need to keep paying their fixed costs like leases, revolving credits debt, etc. Not enough to make a profit, but enough to stay afloat and get back up and running when we can truly open up again. And, of course, the owners who aren't able to make a profit would get a stimulus to allow them to feed and shelter themselves and their family until they can run their business again.

I don't anticipate a lot of businesses that can't operate at all if people would be reasonable in their actions, but that's really the rub. And, I think it's likely going to have to be done even if we follow a reasonable phase in plan.

Would need to see some figures on that

 

[Dago]

Payments for people would be in conjunction with payments for small businesses, not instead of.

So how much are we talking about?

 

[FootballLady]

So how much are we talking about?

A lot.

 

[Dragon]

"Pushing deaths into the present" seems like really bad policy when the entire world is rapidly searching for therapeutics and a vaccine. If we discover next month that a combination of remdesivir and another antiviral reduces fatalities and long term health impacts by 90%, then what do the Swedish policy makers tell their people? There is a growing attitude of "accept the inevitability of this disease". It is defeatist and it's an attitude that can contribute to individuals and nations taking the same route as Sweden.

Denmark were one of the first European countries to shut everything down. We are also the country with the highest population density in all of Scandinavia (129 per km2), Sweden is second with 23 per Km2)

Yet despite this fact we have currently lost a little over 92/million inhabitants to Covid 19 and Sweden despite being far more spread out populationwise stand at 342/million

What they did here when they shut everything down in early march was to start an extensive information campaign. Simultaneously they passed a lot of emergency aid packages.
Employers who had to send their employees home could get the salary expenses reimbursed. Company Tax payments were defered for a year and many other aid packages all designed to make sure that as few people as possible would lose their jobs. They also waived all requirements that would usually be mandatory in order to get unemployment benefits.

We have never had a "real lockdown" in the sense that people would be required to stay at home, but non essential stores and shopping malls were shut as were all restaurants, entertainements etc... Those shops which were open used wide strips of tape to enact social distancing by marking lines 6 feet appart and making "one-way lanes" among the goods and boxes with latex gloves and bottles with rubbing alcohol available at the entry and exit doors.

The key focus here are social distancing. No isolation or lock down. My husband and I are both only a few years from reaching 60 years of age and we have both had serious health issues but despite that we have seen our daughter and grand daughter 4 times over the last 2 months. All four times has been outside, where we have spend a few hours in our local woods walking and talking together but staying 6 feet appart all the time. Even our 3 year old granddaugher has understood the situation and have learned to give "airhugs and kisses". Despite not being able to touch each other we have still managed to get some real quality time together. (but 6 feet appart)

Masks are not mandatory here and most dont use them - despite that our R0 is 0.7

What is emphazied are 4 things

Extreme hygiene. Wash/use rubbing alchohol whenever you touch something outside your own house and ensure that everything you bring home is carefully cleaned. Dont touch your face with your hands and dont go out if you feel even a little bit ill.

Social distancing. Emphazised everywhere. One way sidewalks, commuter trains where free seat reservations are mandatory to ensure 6 feet between every passenger, a bazillion signs all saying "keep your distance" and no gatherings of more than 10 people are allowed.

Work from home/stagered hours. If at all possible - work from home. Since many jobs CAN be done from home, many businesses are still business as usual. Other businesses used stagered hours so that instead of everyone working from 9-5 some would work from 6 to 2 and others from 2 pm - 8 pm. That again enabled the use of social distancing at the workplace and kept the business open.

Single point of entry if you got sick. If you experience symptoms which could be Covid-19, you just call a specific telephone number and you would be given advice about what to do, how to get tested and what hospital to check into if the symptoms were bad.

Now 2 month later we have less than 300 people in hospital with Covid-19, R0 at 0.7 and falling and are beginning to open things up again but under the strict admonition that if people stop following the "rules" then they shut things down again. Kids are back in school, hairdressers are allowed to open as are shopping centers and outdoor sports (no spectators)

 

[Saint by the Bay]

The reality is the economic impact of a Depression that would make The Great Depression blush is steeper than the impact of having to raise taxes in a few years to help pay this down. I'm not a fan of excessive government spending, but this is one of 4 or 5 times in our nation's history that it's warranted and in fact preferable.

Kick this can down the road because the alternative is staggering.

However, I don't think there's a viable way to save small businesses if we don't do a phased re-opening that allows them to at least generate enough revenue to make it to the other side of this. It's too many people and too much money. We have to let them earn in some way.

 

[StudioSaint]

The reality is the economic impact of a Depression that would make The Great Depression blush is steeper than the impact of having to raise taxes in a few years to help pay this down. I'm not a fan of excessive government spending, but this is one of 4 or 5 times in our nation's history that it's warranted and in fact preferable.

Kick this can down the road because the alternative is staggering.

However, I don't think there's a viable way to save small businesses if we don't do a phased re-opening that allows them to at least generate enough revenue to make it to the other side of this. It's too many people and too much money. We have to let them earn in some way.

We do need a lot of contact tracers which are all new positions that need to be filled. It's mostly phone and computer work, so I think companies running call centers and technical support centers could be paid by the government to temporarily convert to contact tracing centers. That's money the government has to spend anyhow as we start gearing back up.

 

[James Spader]

I have no problem about people questioning the government. The problem I have is waiting to do it because it fits a political agenda when it otherwise makes the least amount of sense.

I mean, we found out the government knew that Saudi Arabia sponsored the terror attacks on 9/11 from inside the US embassy then we went to war with Iraq and Afghanistan instead. We found out that a big chunk of our politicians sold all of their stock the same day they told us the threat to Americans from Covid was low and were comparing it to the flu. Yet the thing we are questioning is the government's right to ask us to wear masks and write out name down on a piece of paper for public gatherings during a pandemic. The priorities are really forked up.

You took the 9/11 comments right from my lips. Truth Is Treason In The Empire Of Lies.