COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (2 Viewers)

[bclemms]

One thing we should learn from all of this is every American should be required to have a rainy day fund. 2% of every paycheck should go into a personal account that can only be accessed under certain criteria inside of a national crisis until it reaches a certain dollar amount. Businesses should have the same requirements. Something like 6 months of living/operating expenses.

 

[James Spader]

And the Patriot Act was far more intrusive on individual rights than anything being done in response to this virus.

View: https://giphy.com/gifs/memecandy-lnz5AsSJTwnkusAOJe

 

[St. Widge]

Denmark were one of the first European countries to shut everything down. We are also the country with the highest population density in all of Scandinavia (129 per km2), Sweden is second with 23 per Km2)

Yet despite this fact we have currently lost a little over 92/million inhabitants to Covid 19 and Sweden despite being far more spread out populationwise stand at 342/million

What they did here when they shut everything down in early march was to start an extensive information campaign. Simultaneously they passed a lot of emergency aid packages.
Employers who had to send their employees home could get the salary expenses reimbursed. Company Tax payments were defered for a year and many other aid packages all designed to make sure that as few people as possible would lose their jobs. They also waived all requirements that would usually be mandatory in order to get unemployment benefits.

We have never had a "real lockdown" in the sense that people would be required to stay at home, but non essential stores and shopping malls were shut as were all restaurants, entertainements etc... Those shops which were open used wide strips of tape to enact social distancing by marking lines 6 feet appart and making "one-way lanes" among the goods and boxes with latex gloves and bottles with rubbing alcohol available at the entry and exit doors.

The key focus here are social distancing. No isolation or lock down. My husband and I are both only a few years from reaching 60 years of age and we have both had serious health issues but despite that we have seen our daughter and grand daughter 4 times over the last 2 months. All four times has been outside, where we have spend a few hours in our local woods walking and talking together but staying 6 feet appart all the time. Even our 3 year old granddaugher has understood the situation and have learned to give "airhugs and kisses". Despite not being able to touch each other we have still managed to get some real quality time together. (but 6 feet appart)

Masks are not mandatory here and most dont use them - despite that our R0 is 0.7

What is emphazied are 4 things

Extreme hygiene. Wash/use rubbing alchohol whenever you touch something outside your own house and ensure that everything you bring home is carefully cleaned. Dont touch your face with your hands and dont go out if you feel even a little bit ill.

Social distancing. Emphazised everywhere. One way sidewalks, commuter trains where free seat reservations are mandatory to ensure 6 feet between every passenger, a bazillion signs all saying "keep your distance" and no gatherings of more than 10 people are allowed.

Work from home/stagered hours. If at all possible - work from home. Since many jobs CAN be done from home, many businesses are still business as usual. Other businesses used stagered hours so that instead of everyone working from 9-5 some would work from 6 to 2 and others from 2 pm - 8 pm. That again enabled the use of social distancing at the workplace and kept the business open.

Single point of entry if you got sick. If you experience symptoms which could be Covid-19, you just call a specific telephone number and you would be given advice about what to do, how to get tested and what hospital to check into if the symptoms were bad.

Now 2 month later we have less than 300 people in hospital with Covid-19, R0 at 0.7 and falling and are beginning to open things up again but under the strict admonition that if people stop following the "rules" then they shut things down again. Kids are back in school, hairdressers are allowed to open as are shopping centers and outdoor sports (no spectators)

That looks like a reasonable plan. And frankly not that different from what was supposed to be going on in the United States. We really have never been in "lock down" or totally closed anywhere in the United States. It's stricter in some places and looser in others. We just act like we are all in prison because Americans are not used to being told what to do and we lack the same sense of unity that countries like Denmark have. In part because our culture isn't close to being as homogeneous as I understand Denmark is and because we are so much larger that our differences are greater.

We are all about the individual, our individual cities, states, and even neighborhoods. And not so much the whole although we occasionally pay lip service to being unified. We went through two months of something not that different from what you describe and many Americans are going stark raving mad.

 

[James Spader]

Perhaps I should have qualified my statement, people who refuse to wear masks when in close proximity to other people and/or in required establishments are putting themselves and others at risk....and are acting like spoiled children....

Still disagree? Good point on the Patriot Act.....

View: https://giphy.com/gifs/yes-snoop-dogg-Kzvsru1JqQg4E

 

[James Spader]

Stop already.

They're not "patriots" they're pablum, puking children whose mommies never taught them that 4th place was close to last. In the greatest of ironies, the term snowflake comes to mind.

Imagine how shallow one must be to carry a big old gun while wearing a mask and Walmart fatigues to protest that donut shops and ice cream shops are closed in order to prevent the deaths of millions.....

Bruh, I put quotes around it. Hopefully that context helps.

 

[Dago]

One thing we should learn from all of this is every American should be required to have a rainy day fund. 2% of every paycheck should go into a personal account that can only be accessed under certain criteria inside of a national crisis until it reaches a certain dollar amount. Businesses should have the same requirements. Something like 6 months of living/operating expenses.

I would demand accountability in our government before asking Americans to give up control of more of their income

In this thread I have seen posters talk about raising taxes and i cant understand why government accountability doesnt come first

 

[St. Widge]

I would demand accountability in our government before asking Americans to give up control of more of their income

In this thread I have seen posters talk about raising taxes and i cant understand why government accountability doesnt come first

Ideally it should, but as you said, we are very close to a tipping point in the economy so now is the time for emergency action. Like Bay said, this kind of thing has only been justifiable a few times in our history The Great Depression, post Civil War, and others I'm probably missing, but this is one of those times. And we can't get the government to act quickly and fiscally responsibly in the best of times. There is no way they will do it in a crisis while political tensions and polarization is at an all time high.

So, that accountability will have to wait until various elections. But, I have a feeling that as usually, the majority of people will forget to hold them accountable or will be bamboozled by fancy campaigns again.

 

[StudioSaint]

I would demand accountability in our government before asking Americans to give up control of more of their income

In this thread I have seen posters talk about raising taxes and i cant understand why government accountability doesnt come first

I think they should go hand in hand, not one after the other.

I know we can pressure the government to be more accountable and pressure them to raise taxes back to pre-1980 leveles at the same time.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

I would demand accountability in our government before asking Americans to give up control of more of their income

In this thread I have seen posters talk about raising taxes and i cant understand why government accountability doesnt come first

When I mentioned raising taxes I was being more practical and less idealistic. Yes, ideally we should be cutting spending and seeking accountability. From a practical standpoint, we know with certainty that won't happen.

 

[Dago]

I think they should go hand in hand, not one after the other.

I know we can pressure the government to be more accountable and pressure them to raise taxes back to pre-1980 leveles at the same time.

Except you dont know how much taxation is needed until accountability for expenses is established. You dont determine revenue needed without having any idea of true expenses

 

[Dago]

When I mentioned raising taxes I was being more practical and less idealistic. Yes, ideally we should be cutting spending and seeking accountability. From a practical standpoint, we know with certainty that won't happen.

The only reason it certainly wont happen is because Americans refuse to hold the party they vote for accountable

 

[StudioSaint]

Except you dont know how much taxation is needed until accountability for expenses is established. You dont determine revenue needed without having any idea of true expenses

We don't need better government accountability to know how much personal and business income has been lost or how much help people need. If people are lying to the government about either of those, then it's not a government accountability issue.

 

[Dago]

We don't need better government accountability to know how much personal and business income has been loss or how much help people need. If people are lying to the government about either of those, then it's not a government accountability issue.

No we need accountability to reduce the massive amount of waste which should be done before demanding any American pay more of their personal income

 

[StudioSaint]

No we need accountability to reduce the massive amount of waste which should be done before demanding any American pay more of their personal income

Sounds like you are talking about raising taxes in general and not specifically about a response to this pandemic. Everything I said was directly related to emergency economic relief during the pandemic.

The pandemic is like a house on fire. You don't ask fireman to account for every expense they want to incur before allowing them to fight the fire to save the house. If you do, then the house is going to burn down.

We hold governments accountable through elections. If we don't spend another dollar to help both employees and employers get through the pandemic until after the Nov election. the house will have already burned down.

 

[St. Geezy]

Like an idiot, I continue to allow myself to get sucked into Facebook discussions on this topic, and it is such a maddening exercise.

All I’m going to say is this - we all need to get prepared for a massive spike here within the next two weeks.