If school starts an hr later kids are getting off the bus an hr later no? Where is this magical extra hour of sunlight
coming from?
Daylight Saving Time possibly permanent 11/2023 (1 Viewer)
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Why would they start an hour later?
The person I quoted said school schedules will work their way out. I guess I'm guilty of assuming they'll catch the bus
during daylight hours
Once again, you can't change nature with a clock setting
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I pass high schoolers at 610 every morning waiting on bus. Don’t hear crying from parents bar that they’re in the dark. Now a preschooler I’d feel differently. But luckily they don’t go to bus til 715 here.
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I was referencing that because there were some comments about parents putting their kids on a bus before sunrise.
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I don't have a strong opinion on Standard time vs Daylight Savings time, but let's look at what actually happens.
Use https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/minneapolis as a reference, then swap to other cities.
So, I'm going to use Minneapolis, MN for the North and South Florida for the South. For those that don't know this, the further south, aka closer to the equator you are, the less of an effect the seasons have on daylight. The further north you are, i.e. further from the equator, the larger effect the seasons have on daylight hours.
Let's start with South Florida, I'll do Miami. This currently shows the time changes, but we can use simple math to make the point. I'll focus on Daylight hours, and Civil Twilight.
As you can see, daylight starts earlier and ends later in the summer, peaking in mid June, and starts later and ends earlier until mid winter.
If Miami was always in Daylight Savings Time, today, March 16th, Sunrise will be at about 7:30am and sunset wsa around 7:30pm. with, about 20 minutes of twilight before and after. If we stayed in standard time, Sunrise would have been at 6:30am, and sunset would have been at 6:30pm.
EDT = Eastern Daylight Time, EST = Eastern Standard Time.
In mid June (the 18th), EDT sunrise is 6:29am, and sunset is 8:14pm. If we were in EST Sunrise would be at 5:29am and Sunset at 7:14pm. 13 hours and 45 minutes of daylight.
In Mid Jan, Jan 18th, EDT sunrise would be 8:08am and sunset would be 6:53pm. 10 hours and 45 min. in EST, sunrise is currently 7:08am and sunset is 5:53pm. For the same 10 hours and 45 min.
Summer to winter has a 3 hour daylight difference.
No, let's use the more extreme example of Minneapolis.
June 18 - EDT Sunrise is at 5:26am, and Sunset is at 9:02pm. If we stuck with EST, Sunrise would be at 4:26am and Sunset would be at 8:02pm. A total of 15 hours and 37 minutes of daylight. Almost an hour more than Miami.
Jan 18th - future EDT Sunrise would be at 8:45am, and Sunset would be at 6:01pm. Current EST Sunrise is 7:45am and Sunset is 5:01pm. 9 hours and 16 minutes of daylight either way.
Summer to winter has a 6 hour and 21 minutes daylight difference. 3 hours and 21 minutes more than Miami.
Personally, I think it's the massive gain in daylight hours as a function of the seasons, that matter a whole lot more than a 1 hour shift. But it seems like the time change has sort of made sense, even down south. But it makes more sense up north. I think an 8:08 to 8:45am sunrise is a bit late in the day in January. For perspective, my kid is out of the house at 7:15am to stand outside waiting for the bus.
If you want to get a feel for New Orleans, it's closer to Miami.. about 15 minutes more daylight in the summer, and about a half hour less in the winter than Miami.
Use https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/minneapolis as a reference, then swap to other cities.
So, I'm going to use Minneapolis, MN for the North and South Florida for the South. For those that don't know this, the further south, aka closer to the equator you are, the less of an effect the seasons have on daylight. The further north you are, i.e. further from the equator, the larger effect the seasons have on daylight hours.
Let's start with South Florida, I'll do Miami. This currently shows the time changes, but we can use simple math to make the point. I'll focus on Daylight hours, and Civil Twilight.
As you can see, daylight starts earlier and ends later in the summer, peaking in mid June, and starts later and ends earlier until mid winter.
If Miami was always in Daylight Savings Time, today, March 16th, Sunrise will be at about 7:30am and sunset wsa around 7:30pm. with, about 20 minutes of twilight before and after. If we stayed in standard time, Sunrise would have been at 6:30am, and sunset would have been at 6:30pm.
EDT = Eastern Daylight Time, EST = Eastern Standard Time.
In mid June (the 18th), EDT sunrise is 6:29am, and sunset is 8:14pm. If we were in EST Sunrise would be at 5:29am and Sunset at 7:14pm. 13 hours and 45 minutes of daylight.
In Mid Jan, Jan 18th, EDT sunrise would be 8:08am and sunset would be 6:53pm. 10 hours and 45 min. in EST, sunrise is currently 7:08am and sunset is 5:53pm. For the same 10 hours and 45 min.
Summer to winter has a 3 hour daylight difference.
No, let's use the more extreme example of Minneapolis.
June 18 - EDT Sunrise is at 5:26am, and Sunset is at 9:02pm. If we stuck with EST, Sunrise would be at 4:26am and Sunset would be at 8:02pm. A total of 15 hours and 37 minutes of daylight. Almost an hour more than Miami.
Jan 18th - future EDT Sunrise would be at 8:45am, and Sunset would be at 6:01pm. Current EST Sunrise is 7:45am and Sunset is 5:01pm. 9 hours and 16 minutes of daylight either way.
Summer to winter has a 6 hour and 21 minutes daylight difference. 3 hours and 21 minutes more than Miami.
Personally, I think it's the massive gain in daylight hours as a function of the seasons, that matter a whole lot more than a 1 hour shift. But it seems like the time change has sort of made sense, even down south. But it makes more sense up north. I think an 8:08 to 8:45am sunrise is a bit late in the day in January. For perspective, my kid is out of the house at 7:15am to stand outside waiting for the bus.
If you want to get a feel for New Orleans, it's closer to Miami.. about 15 minutes more daylight in the summer, and about a half hour less in the winter than Miami.
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The only time Americans really care about the daylight saving time change is when we’re anticipating having to change our clocks.
That’s not just my opinion; I can prove it. Each fall and late each winter, searches for “daylight saving time” spike as people start to wonder when they need to either spring forward or fall back.
You’ll notice that there’s been a big spike in interest this particular late winter. That’s in part because the Google search data for this week aren’t yet complete, but it’s mostly because the Senate just unanimously passed legislation that would make the daylight saving time change permanent.
In other words, if this bill is signed into law, you won’t have to fall back next November, or ever again.
Well, until the law is almost inevitably rescinded.
We tend to think about daylight saving time as giving us more sunlight in the evening hours, which we think because it does.
But we don’t think about the converse of that very much: that when there’s no daylight saving time, we have more sunlight in the morning.
On Sunday, daylight saving went into effect, meaning that last week and for a few months before that we were operating in standard time. When you would get up for work or school in early January right after the Sun had come up — that was standard time. And without standard time, you would have been waking up in darkness.
We can visualize this. Enter your Zip code (or any other Zip code) below to see the general sunrise and sunset times for that part of the country in 2022. Then click the checkbox to turn on permanent daylight saving time. Notice what happens to those winter mornings……..
That’s not just my opinion; I can prove it. Each fall and late each winter, searches for “daylight saving time” spike as people start to wonder when they need to either spring forward or fall back.
You’ll notice that there’s been a big spike in interest this particular late winter. That’s in part because the Google search data for this week aren’t yet complete, but it’s mostly because the Senate just unanimously passed legislation that would make the daylight saving time change permanent.
In other words, if this bill is signed into law, you won’t have to fall back next November, or ever again.
Well, until the law is almost inevitably rescinded.
We tend to think about daylight saving time as giving us more sunlight in the evening hours, which we think because it does.
But we don’t think about the converse of that very much: that when there’s no daylight saving time, we have more sunlight in the morning.
On Sunday, daylight saving went into effect, meaning that last week and for a few months before that we were operating in standard time. When you would get up for work or school in early January right after the Sun had come up — that was standard time. And without standard time, you would have been waking up in darkness.
We can visualize this. Enter your Zip code (or any other Zip code) below to see the general sunrise and sunset times for that part of the country in 2022. Then click the checkbox to turn on permanent daylight saving time. Notice what happens to those winter mornings……..
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The sun rose at 8:27 AM on January 7, 1974. Children in the Washington area had left for school in the dark that morning, thanks to a new national experiment during a wrenching energy crisis: most of the US went to year-round daylight saving time beginning on January 6. “It was jet black” outside when her daughter was supposed to leave for school, Florence Bauer of Springfield told the Washington Post. “Some of the children took flashlights with them.”
The change would benefit Americans in the long run, predicted Steve Grossman of the Department of Transportation. Yes, accidents in the morning darkness may become more common, he said, but longer daylight hours could mean eliminating the hazards of evening commutes: “stress, anxiety, and many drivers have had a couple of drinks,” as he told the Post. Outside the capital, others vowed defiance: Robert Yost, the mayor of St. Francis, Kansas said his town’s council “felt it was time to put our foot down and stop this monkey business.”
Now as the idea of permanent daylight saving time has gained some political momentum, it’s probably worth a look back to another period when the US tinkered with time.
Congress had voted on December 14, 1973, to put the US on daylight saving time for two years. President Nixon signed the bill the next day. The US had gone to permanent daylight saving time before, during World War II. Then, too, the measure was enacted to save fuel.
Permanent DST wasn’t close to the wackiest idea about time floating around—Paul Mullinax, a geographer who worked at the Pentagon, came up with the idea of putting the continental US on a single time zone. “USA Time” would apply from Bangor to Barstow, eliminate jet lag, and standardize TV schedules.
His idea even got traction in Congress, via a bill from US Representative Patsy Mink of Hawaii. “The human being is a very adaptive animal,” he said. “There is no reason we have to be a slave to the sun.”
And yet the early-morning darkness quickly proved dangerous for children: A 6-year-old Alexandria girl was struck by a car on her way to Polk Elementary School on January 7; the accident broke her leg.
Two Prince George’s County students were hurt in February. In the weeks after the change, eight Florida kids were killed in traffic accidents.
Florida’s governor, Reubin Askew, asked for Congress to repeal the measure. “It’s time to recognize that we may well have made a mistake,” US Senator Dick Clark of Iowa said during a speech in Congress on January 28, 1974. In the Washington area, some schools delayed their start times until the sun caught up with the clock……
www.washingtonian.com
The change would benefit Americans in the long run, predicted Steve Grossman of the Department of Transportation. Yes, accidents in the morning darkness may become more common, he said, but longer daylight hours could mean eliminating the hazards of evening commutes: “stress, anxiety, and many drivers have had a couple of drinks,” as he told the Post. Outside the capital, others vowed defiance: Robert Yost, the mayor of St. Francis, Kansas said his town’s council “felt it was time to put our foot down and stop this monkey business.”
Now as the idea of permanent daylight saving time has gained some political momentum, it’s probably worth a look back to another period when the US tinkered with time.
Congress had voted on December 14, 1973, to put the US on daylight saving time for two years. President Nixon signed the bill the next day. The US had gone to permanent daylight saving time before, during World War II. Then, too, the measure was enacted to save fuel.
Permanent DST wasn’t close to the wackiest idea about time floating around—Paul Mullinax, a geographer who worked at the Pentagon, came up with the idea of putting the continental US on a single time zone. “USA Time” would apply from Bangor to Barstow, eliminate jet lag, and standardize TV schedules.
His idea even got traction in Congress, via a bill from US Representative Patsy Mink of Hawaii. “The human being is a very adaptive animal,” he said. “There is no reason we have to be a slave to the sun.”
And yet the early-morning darkness quickly proved dangerous for children: A 6-year-old Alexandria girl was struck by a car on her way to Polk Elementary School on January 7; the accident broke her leg.
Two Prince George’s County students were hurt in February. In the weeks after the change, eight Florida kids were killed in traffic accidents.
Florida’s governor, Reubin Askew, asked for Congress to repeal the measure. “It’s time to recognize that we may well have made a mistake,” US Senator Dick Clark of Iowa said during a speech in Congress on January 28, 1974. In the Washington area, some schools delayed their start times until the sun caught up with the clock……
The US Tried Permanent Daylight Saving Time in the ’70s. People Hated It - Washingtonian
The sun rose at 8:27 AM on January 7, 1974. Children in the Washington area had left for school in the dark that morning, thanks to a new national experiment during a wrenching energy crisis: most of the US went to year-round daylight saving time beginning on January 6. "It was jet black"...
www.washingtonian.comThe real extremes are the poles and the equator. Days are roughly 12 hrs long at the equator year round. The poles experience 24 hrs of light or darkness depending on the season. Once again, no clock setting will change natureI don't have a strong opinion on Standard time vs Daylight Savings time, but let's look at what actually happens.
Use https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/minneapolis as a reference, then swap to other cities.
So, I'm going to use Minneapolis, MN for the North and South Florida for the South. For those that don't know this, the further south, aka closer to the equator you are, the less of an effect the seasons have on daylight. The further north you are, i.e. further from the equator, the larger effect the seasons have on daylight hours.
Let's start with South Florida, I'll do Miami. This currently shows the time changes, but we can use simple math to make the point. I'll focus on Daylight hours, and Civil Twilight.
As you can see, daylight starts earlier and ends later in the summer, peaking in mid June, and starts later and ends earlier until mid winter.
If Miami was always in Daylight Savings Time, today, March 16th, Sunrise will be at about 7:30am and sunset wsa around 7:30pm. with, about 20 minutes of twilight before and after. If we stayed in standard time, Sunrise would have been at 6:30am, and sunset would have been at 6:30pm.
EDT = Eastern Daylight Time, EST = Eastern Standard Time.
In mid June (the 18th), EDT sunrise is 6:29am, and sunset is 8:14pm. If we were in EST Sunrise would be at 5:29am and Sunset at 7:14pm. 13 hours and 45 minutes of daylight.
In Mid Jan, Jan 18th, EDT sunrise would be 8:08am and sunset would be 6:53pm. 10 hours and 45 min. in EST, sunrise is currently 7:08am and sunset is 5:53pm. For the same 10 hours and 45 min.
Summer to winter has a 3 hour daylight difference.
No, let's use the more extreme example of Minneapolis.
June 18 - EDT Sunrise is at 5:26am, and Sunset is at 9:02pm. If we stuck with EST, Sunrise would be at 4:26am and Sunset would be at 8:02pm. A total of 15 hours and 37 minutes of daylight. Almost an hour more than Miami.
Jan 18th - future EDT Sunrise would be at 8:45am, and Sunset would be at 6:01pm. Current EST Sunrise is 7:45am and Sunset is 5:01pm. 9 hours and 16 minutes of daylight either way.
Summer to winter has a 6 hour and 21 minutes daylight difference. 3 hours and 21 minutes more than Miami.
Personally, I think it's the massive gain in daylight hours as a function of the seasons, that matter a whole lot more than a 1 hour shift. But it seems like the time change has sort of made sense, even down south. But it makes more sense up north. I think an 8:08 to 8:45am sunrise is a bit late in the day in January. For perspective, my kid is out of the house at 7:15am to stand outside waiting for the bus.
If you want to get a feel for New Orleans, it's closer to Miami.. about 15 minutes more daylight in the summer, and about a half hour less in the winter than Miami.
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Yeah, but I'm talking about in the continental USA. Alaska is always an exception and Hawaii is too, but not drastically further south than Miami.
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As has been brought out very well in this discussion, the legal time change does nothing to alter the natural phases of daylight as we progress through the seasons. The only thing that changes by the setting of our clocks is that it changes the schedule of the community as a whole.
For example, you could ask your boss to let you clock in & out of your job an hour earlier and this would effectively give you personally an extra hour of daylight simply because you finished your workday an hour earlier. The only thing the time change law does is put everyone on the same schedule. This way everyone starts their day (including their businesses) an hour earlier.
The complaint that most folks have with the time change is the change itself. People are creatures of habit and most folks tend to struggle with their inner 'body clock' when the time change is made. If the time stayed the same (either Daylight or Standard time), people would simply adjust accordingly. I just happen to feel there are more options throughout the year by having everyone start their daily schedule an hour earlier each day. That's why I am in favor of having a permanent Daylight Saving Time. Having light earlier in the mornings is useless to me, because that time is devoted to my secular job.
I want more daylight for my personal time.
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In my experience, airlines (and hotels) do not book more than a year (and usually less) in advance.
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Maybe it was cruises not sure.
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True. Rubio specifically said "transportation", so this doesn't seem isolated to airlines. Likely also includes rail, trucking and water craft as well. I know nothing of logistics of transporting merchandise, so I will assume those schedules are made that far in advance.
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