Didn't have this many "come to Jesus" moments under Payton (1 Viewer)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I'm not ready to say Allen is the full problem just yet. The defense is making plays, they are better than last year at creating turnovers, and even when they get exposed they make quick corrections. 50% of the team is working fine and ST's has been no slouch.

Still, it's the HC's responsibility to make sure everything is rolling on ST's, defense, and offense and so it is somewhat his responsiblity.


Carr spoke about details, a lot and players are having to call players out more than we've done so in the past. We can go back and forth on if Pete is bad as a play-caller and it has warrant but what seems to be more obvious than that is, the players don't respect him enough to not Fork* up on a down to down basis. There was a fear factor under Payton but more than that he was constantly teaching. During practices he'd harp about spacing among other things. Those are things that Pete cannot duplicate as a coach. He doesn't appear to be a stickler for those things, and unfortunately there's too much weight being put on the locker-room to correct those issues.

Allen has to get someone in and I don't think promoting from within is going to do it. It must be a veteran coach that commands respect, it's got to be Gruden.


Bonus points if you keep Pete on the staff. No he's not a play-caller by trade, but he didn't last that long under Payton without having value...it's just the current role doesn't fit him.

 

[44slayer]

Theres Dennis Allen the Head Coach.

And Dennis Allen the defensive coordinator.

They are not the same person. I dont get how so many people can say "the defense is playing well" when Allen is the Head Coach responsible for the entire team.

He isnt the head coach of 50% of the team. He just calls the defense. It doesnt make him less responsible for the performance and results of the entire team. Its amazing how if a HC has an OC and a DC, he takes full blame. But when the HC is the OC or DC, they somehow get a pass for the other side of the ball. Its really puzzling.

 

[Saint Jack]

I remember there were a few times were the fanbase was ready to fire Payton in that ‘14-‘16 timeframe.

 

[meily]

those 7-9 seasons yes we did, and people wanted him fired even though they were transition years to get from under bad contracts and bad defenses, but Payton rectified it eventually and we started averaging 10-11 wins a year with DA as DC, and now DA is in that same boat and needs to fix the offense.

 

[Doug B]

Allen has to get someone in and I don't think promoting from within is going to do it. It must be a veteran coach that commands respect, it's got to be Gruden.

I'm intrigued by Gruden, but I'm concerned about how such a transition actually gets carried out.

Yes, Gruden visited during camp and consulted with the team. But does Gruden have the 2023 Saints' terminology and general scheme down pat and incorporated? Or would he have to attempt to install his own idea of an offense over the mini-bye? Or a hybrid approach, which seems most likely to me?

 

[44slayer]

those 7-9 seasons yes we did, and people wanted him fired even though they were transition years to get from under bad contracts and bad defenses, but Payton rectified it eventually and we started averaging 10-11 wins a year with DA as DC, and now DA is in that same boat and needs to fix the offense.

Its easier to sell that to people when you go to the NFCCG in your first season. Not starting 4-9 on top of your 8-28 record from the last team you failed with.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Theres Dennis Allen the Head Coach.

And Dennis Allen the defensive coordinator.

They are not the same person. I dont get how so many people can say "the defense is playing well" when Allen is the Head Coach responsible for the entire team.

He isnt the head coach of 50% of the team. He just calls the defense. It doesnt make him less responsible for the performance and results of the entire team. Its amazing how if a HC has an OC and a DC, he takes full blame. But when the HC is the OC or DC, they somehow get a pass for the other side of the ball. Its really puzzling.

You clearly just want to trash Allen. I gave respect to your angle in literally the second sentence lol.

I'm intrigued by Gruden, but I'm concerned about how such a transition actually gets carried out.

Yes, Gruden visited during camp and consulted with the team. But does Gruden have the 2023 Saints' terminology and general scheme down pat and incorporated? Or would he have to attempt to install his own idea of an offense over the mini-bye? Or a hybrid approach, which seems most likely to me?

To me it would be let Pete do the design throughout the week and let Gruden hold the play-sheet. They are both WC offense concepts, which was why Gruden was able to assist in the 1st place as the terminology is likely similar.

 

[St4ever]

I think the best time to make some sort of switch is our bye week. That gives all the players two weeks to accept the change and learn whatever needs to be adjusted.

I also think dumbing down this offense some may help the line.

 

[Bayouboy]

DA is now 18-41 as a head coach......but on the bright side, this is the first time he's been 0.500 or better going into week 7 in his five years as head coach.

 

[44slayer]

You clearly just want to trash Allen. I gave respect to your angle in literally the second sentence lol.

"Still, it's the HC's responsibility to make sure everything is rolling on ST's, defense, and offense and so it is somewhat his responsiblity."

Its his responsibility, so its somewhat his responsibility?

Theres no piece of responsibility. The HC is ultimately fully responsible for the team. 23 games with Pete as OC, and he will not grow a pair and make the tough decisions to make this team better.

Its 100% on him if everyone knows the least he could do is remove Pete from playcalling....and he wont do it.

 

[gregh]

I'm not ready to say Allen is the full problem just yet. The defense is making plays, they are better than last year at creating turnovers, and even when they get exposed they make quick corrections. 50% of the team is working fine and ST's has been no slouch.

Still, it's the HC's responsibility to make sure everything is rolling on ST's, defense, and offense and so it is somewhat his responsiblity.


Carr spoke about details, a lot and players are having to call players out more than we've done so in the past. We can go back and forth on if Pete is bad as a play-caller and it has warrant but what seems to be more obvious than that is, the players don't respect him enough to not Fork* up on a down to down basis. There was a fear factor under Payton but more than that he was constantly teaching. During practices he'd harp about spacing among other things. Those are things that Pete cannot duplicate as a coach. He doesn't appear to be a stickler for those things, and unfortunately there's too much weight being put on the locker-room to correct those issues.

Allen has to get someone in and I don't think promoting from within is going to do it. It must be a veteran coach that commands respect, it's got to be Gruden.


Bonus points if you keep Pete on the staff. No he's not a play-caller by trade, but he didn't last that long under Payton without having value...it's just the current role doesn't fit him.

gruden, everyone gets second chances these day to redeem themselves, why not him?

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

"Still, it's the HC's responsibility to make sure everything is rolling on ST's, defense, and offense and so it is somewhat his responsiblity."

Its his responsibility, so its somewhat his responsibility?

Theres no piece of responsibility. The HC is ultimately fully responsible for the team. 23 games with Pete as OC, and he will not grow a pair and make the tough decisions to make this team better.

Its 100% on him if everyone knows the least he could do is remove Pete from playcalling....and he wont do it.

You're not wrong and the responsibility for incompetence is shared between he and Pete. He for not making a decision, Pete for being inept.

 

[SaintKenKen]

I think the proper move is to remove play calling from Pete no matter what. I'd rather see what Curry can do than bring in a potential distraction in Gruden, but...

I'll take Jon "dumpster fire HR issues" Gruden over our current offensive dumpster fire situation. Whatever it takes.

 

[Judge_Smails]

gruden, everyone gets second chances these day to redeem themselves, why not him?

Why? Because since the mid-2000‘s his offenses have sucked at scoring points and especially in the red zone.

I realize a lot of you guys get all wooly for Chucky, but he is a has-been, caricature at this point in time. He has a losing record since 2002 (69-82) and as noted above, runs an offense that is dated and hasn’t been proficient at scoring since before Twitter and Facebook were things.

He’s Ditka with worse baggage.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

gruden, everyone gets second chances these day to redeem themselves, why not him?

I'll say why not, because he hasn't gotten the job done since he took over a team that was was already primed-up for a SB and that was 20 YEARS AGO. There's zero evidence that he is capable of breathing new life into any offense, it's just more classic & outdated WC stuff with no new twist...YAWN!

edit: I see that @Judge_Smails beat me to it.