Opinion ESPN’s Bill Barnwell rates the Saints as least desirable job for HC candidates [mod edit] (1 Viewer)

[St. Widge]

I came here to point this out, he has pretty openly disliked this franchise for at least a decade now.

I have disliked Bill Barnwell for about the same about of time, not-so-coincidentally. Many of his football opinions are noxious and he handles even mild disagreement like a spoiled toddler.

Yeah he's a former Bill Simmons/Grantland guy so it's not surprising he hates anything not in the North East and is an obnoxious spoiled toddler.

 

[Saint KayBee]

Fun fact: two recent permanent head coaches here (Payton and Haslett) surprisingly won a division title in their first year, defying expectations after the team had a 3-13 season the year before in each case. Winning the division is markedly easier now than it was in both of those cases. Wonder if it can happen a third time next season....

Haslett had the fortune of inheriting two well-built lines, the problem on those Ditka Saints teams was more to do with basically every player on the roster who weighed less than 230 pounds not named Sammy Knight. Haz rebuilt the secondary, added speed on offense, and hired a considerable bounty of assistant coaches who got poached after 1-2 seasons, and built what became the fringe playoff team that played 16 road games in a season that one time. That ‘05 team lost three games on walkoff field goals and in two other games threw INTs in the end zone while driving to tie the game. I like to believe a normal circumstances team wins at least a couple of those, and is more competitive in some of the other losses, thus getting closer to “fringe playoff team” than “on-field disaster.”

 

[MarylandWHODAT]

But there is still more money in the NFL and basically every college coach hates the NIL system as it is currently structured with the portal. College HCs have the kiss the arse of hundreds of rich Alumni in order to get the money to buy a good team. NFL coaches just have to kiss the arse of one billionaire to get the money to buy a good team. And at least NFL coaches have the draft where you don't have to recruit them or pay more than the set salary for their draft positions.

Hell, some coaches are even contributing their own money to fund NIL deals to calm down pissed off fans. See, Brian Kelly.

And Belichick took the N. Carolina job because his agent knew that he was not going to be a serious contender for any NFL HC jobs.

I'll agree that there is a bit more in the NFL but college is catching up. And quick. What they don't publicize in the deals are the quiet "hey, here's a mansion on the lake, a car or three and country club memberships" that total in the millions. And there is more control for a college head coach than in the pro's, which is a big ego stroke for these A type personalities.

And an arse is an arse is an arse and if they are wealthier than you and I, they want it kissed.

I would say that while the NFL is the darling of coaching jobs, college is right next to them and again, catching up very quickly.

 

[southdeltan]

While I haven’t bothered to read the comments, I’m sure somebody pointed out it’s way more desirable than the year we hired Payton and signed Drew.

 

[Saint Jack]

I'll agree that there is a bit more in the NFL but college is catching up. And quick. What they don't publicize in the deals are the quiet "hey, here's a mansion on the lake, a car or three and country club memberships" that total in the millions. And there is more control for a college head coach than in the pro's, which is a big ego stroke for these A type personalities.

And an arse is an arse is an arse and if they are wealthier than you and I, they want it kissed.

I would say that while the NFL is the darling of coaching jobs, college is right next to them and again, catching up very quickly.

I don’t wanna get into a college Vs pro debate, but there is a stigma to coaches that only succeed in college.
For all of Saban’s accomplishments in Bama; he is largely known as a failure in the pro circuit.

Even with the most successful head coaches in college; they become less known as you get further from the college towns and into metro cities that house pro teams.

 

[Saint Jack]

I'll agree that there is a bit more in the NFL but college is catching up. And quick. What they don't publicize in the deals are the quiet "hey, here's a mansion on the lake, a car or three and country club memberships" that total in the millions. And there is more control for a college head coach than in the pro's, which is a big ego stroke for these A type personalities.

And an arse is an arse is an arse and if they are wealthier than you and I, they want it kissed.

I would say that while the NFL is the darling of coaching jobs, college is right next to them and again, catching up very quickly.

Winning one Super Bowl is more valuable to a career post coaching than five nattys.

 

[Saintman2884]

And a side note, I think being in a weak division is more of an asset than they’re willing to admit.
No Mahomes, Allen, or Hurts in the South.

Yeah, in terms of "Star QB's" who are playing at a Pro Bowl level, while Penix may have some great untapped potential after Kirk Cousins got benched for some terrible cumulative playing after several weeks, Baker Mayfield is probably the best overall QB right now in the NFC South.

Derek Carr, at his very best with a good supporting cast a decent O-line is probably #2. He showed us that last season and somewhat this year too .

 

[Elvis]

He’s just pointing out what many of us have expressed before. This is going to be a tough place to succeed with an aging roster, bad contracts, dead money and a GM that is safe even when he fails. If I were an in demand coach, I’d be looking elsewhere too.

 

[St. Widge]

I'll agree that there is a bit more in the NFL but college is catching up. And quick. What they don't publicize in the deals are the quiet "hey, here's a mansion on the lake, a car or three and country club memberships" that total in the millions. And there is more control for a college head coach than in the pro's, which is a big ego stroke for these A type personalities.

And an arse is an arse is an arse and if they are wealthier than you and I, they want it kissed.

I would say that while the NFL is the darling of coaching jobs, college is right next to them and again, catching up very quickly.

No doubt college HC is a good job. I'm just saying there is less arse kissing as a NFL HC, you don't have to worry about spending a lot of time on the recruiting trial, you don't have to deal with the money stuff, and you are coaching players that are supposed to be professional so you don't have to deal with as much bullshirt.

Also, there are a limited number of college jobs that pay like NFL HC jobs. So even if you include college jobs, there are probably only 60 or so of these jobs available, and some guys, like Joe Brady, didn't really like coaching in college so they are only likely to take NFL jobs.

I'm sure there are some coaches that prefer to coach in college (Saban was one before NIL), but I suspect those are guys that are less likely to be good NFL head coaches anyway.

And in the end, I'm just saying that the vast majority of guys offered an NFL HC job, especially guys that are coordinators in the NFL, are going to take the job. That and even if you can't get your top choice or two, there are plenty of good coaches out there capable of being good NFL HCs.

 

[Saintman2884]

I don’t wanna get into a college Vs pro debate, but there is a stigma to coaches that only succeed in college.
For all of Saban’s accomplishments in Bama; he is largely known as a failure in the pro circuit.

Even with the most successful head coaches in college; they become less known as you get further from the college towns and into metro cities that house pro teams.

That's because unlike his tenure at Michigan State, LSU, or Alabama, in the NFL, Saban couldn't be the absolute control-freak dictator who's will is final and can tell 3-4 star recruits back in the day to sit for a few seasons until "their turns came around". For most of Saban's NCAAF tenure, he didn't have to worry about FA, NIL, the transfer portal where good players could transfer or leave at-will to a team or rival that will start them now or sooner. To succeed in the NFL, previously successful college HC's like Pete Carroll, Jimmy Johnson, John Robinson, even Bill Walsh had to alter or change their strategies, demeanors, attitudes and opinions towards how the entire business side of the NFL works.

Saban, for all his success and accomplishments, is just too hard-wired, opinionated and resolute in his personality to ever attempt to adapt to that reality to be a successful NFL HC. Great position coach, but that's all.

 

[St. Widge]

He’s just pointing out what many of us have expressed before. This is going to be a tough place to succeed with an aging roster, bad contracts, dead money and a GM that is safe even when he fails. If I were an in demand coach, I’d be looking elsewhere too.

It's also a place where a HC is safe even if he fails so it has that going for it.

Seriously, there are plenty of good coaches who would take this job. It's not like any job that is going to be available doesn't have some major issues. Yes we have an aging roster and a high cap. But at the same point, we have a very patient owner and GM who will give any coach whatever they say they want/need and the time to build a team. There are many jobs where neither one of those things are true and many where at least one of those is not true.

If the cap situation for the next two years is a big issue for a specific coach, as I know it would be for you, then sure this is not as attractive of a job. But it does have things going for it that might appeal to other coaches.

Finally, even if Barnwell is right, it doesn't make him any less of an arse overall.

 

[Elvis]

It's also a place where a HC is safe even if he fails so it has that going for it.

Seriously, there are plenty of good coaches who would take this job. It's not like any job that is going to be available doesn't have some major issues. Yes we have an aging roster and a high cap. But at the same point, we have a very patient owner and GM who will give any coach whatever they say they want/need and the time to build a team. There are many jobs where neither one of those things are true and many where at least one of those is not true.

If the cap situation for the next two years is a big issue for a specific coach, as I know it would be for you, then sure this is not as attractive of a job. But it does have things going for it that might appeal to other coaches.

Finally, even if Barnwell is right, it doesn't make him any less of an arse overall.

Safe from the GM, but not the owner as we just witnessed. Someone is in her ear, but apparently not when it comes to Loomis. Then we have a lack of talent that can’t be remedied. I don’t think I’d step into that situation unless I didn’t have other choices.

 

[Saintman2884]

No doubt college HC is a good job. I'm just saying there is less arse kissing as a NFL HC, you don't have to worry about spending a lot of time on the recruiting trial, you don't have to deal with the money stuff, and you are coaching players that are supposed to be professional so you don't have to deal with as much bullshirt.

Also, there are a limited number of college jobs that pay like NFL HC jobs. So even if you include college jobs, there are probably only 60 or so of these jobs available, and some guys, like Joe Brady, didn't really like coaching in college so they are only likely to take NFL jobs.

I'm sure there are some coaches that prefer to coach in college (Saban was one before NIL), but I suspect those are guys that are less likely to be good NFL head coaches anyway.

And in the end, I'm just saying that the vast majority of guys offered an NFL HC job, especially guys that are coordinators in the NFL, are going to take the job. That and even if you can't get your top choice or two, there are plenty of good coaches out there capable of being good NFL HCs.

Considering how most college HC's have to deal with NIL and transfer portal as being permanent relavent factors to contend with in recruiting, building up and consolidating, later on, adding and subtracting a few roster spots annually as years go bye, you might actually see more future college HC's make the leap and transition to being good NFL HC's because they'd have some experience dealing with FA or salary cap-like issues with transport portal and NIL.

And lets be honest, when it comes to NIL, who's most likely to receive these endorsements? Mostly offensive players, like star QB's, RB's or WR's. Maybe the occasional LB or big, rough-and-tumble DE types, but typically O-linemen, D-linemen, starting LB's DB's and CB's aren't the ones racking up huge endorsement deals with Subway or Academy Sports.

 

[St. Widge]

Safe from the GM, but not the owner as we just witnessed. Someone is in her ear, but apparently not when it comes to Loomis. Then we have a lack of talent that can’t be remedied. I don’t think I’d step into that situation unless I didn’t have other choices.

If we believe Gayle, it was the players that were in her ear. Anway, all reports are that Loomis did not fight the decision and that he was likely going to let DA go at the end of the year. Some might even argue that would have been the better move since it gets you a higher draft pick. But, frankly, I think DA should have been let go 2 years ago and certainly after last year. But, I do think that willingness to give a HC all the rope he wants to hand himself is going to be attractive to some coaches.

The lack of talent can be remedied and the owner still gave a terrible HC 1 1/2 years more than he should have gotten.

The cap will be reset in two years and the thing about Loomis is that the personnel decisions are as good as the head coach is at making personnel decisions since Loomis clearly lets a HC pick his own team. If you are a HC that wants that kind of control and monetary backing there are advantages to this job in addition to the fact that we do have some good young talent and the talent we do have was clearly not being maximized by DA.

I mean even DA had more or less this roster close to a .500 team so a competent coach would have had them in the playoffs in this terrible division. So there is a base to work with here that a new HC can build on while having a patient front office who will give him the players he wants after a 2 year reset that will buy him even more time.

It's not the most attractive job, but it's in the jumble of all the other jobs. Just depends on what situation each coach is most comfortable with. Personally, I'd steer way clear the the Jets, Cleveland, and Raiders jobs. And if it wasn't for Burrow, I'd steer way clear of the Bengals job if it came open. But Burrow makes that job attractive alone.

 

[St. Widge]

Considering how most college HC's have to deal with NIL and transfer portal as being permanent relavent factors to contend with in recruiting, building up and consolidating, later on, adding and subtracting a few roster spots annually as years go bye, you might actually see more future college HC's make the leap and transition to being good NFL HC's because they'd have some experience dealing with FA or salary cap-like issues with transport portal and NIL.

And lets be honest, when it comes to NIL, who's most likely to receive these endorsements? Mostly offensive players, like star QB's, RB's or WR's. Maybe the occasional LB or big, rough-and-tumble DE types, but typically O-linemen, D-linemen, starting LB's DB's and CB's aren't the ones racking up huge endorsement deals with Subway or Academy Sports.

Yeah, but it's not just the endorsement deals these days. Teams are straight up writing big checks to the best OL and DL guys. They may not get the publicity to get advertising deals but coaches know they have to write big checks to the best guys in the trenches to get them.

But it is possible that dealing with the new era of NIL and the Transfer portal could give college coaches today some skills that translate to the NFL.