Evidence for God (1 Viewer)

[bergeaux]

A fire breathing dragon lives in my garage...

http://www.users.qwest.net/~jcosta3/article_dragon.htm

This is a fair point, but one that does not apply to this conversation. The one problem is that nature and we DO exist. The question isn't whether we believe in nature and us. The question is do we believe it was an accident or that it was intelligently designed?

A more appropriate way to put that argument you linked to would be to say:

I found this perfectly square diamond. Did nature just happen to make it that way? Did someone come and cut it into a perfect square? Or did "God" make it that way?

I think the most likely answer is that someone came along and cut it that way and left it behind. The problem is that you have to believe in aliens to use that answer for nature, the planet and all the perfectly designed DNA of creatures around us.

 

[Sarcastic]

A fire breathing dragon lives in my garage...

http://www.users.qwest.net/~jcosta3/article_dragon.htm

I'm tempted to change my earlier post to: "What Carl Sagan said," with this caveat:

But what if everyone in the world started killing each other to prove that their dragon is better?

 

[Taurus]

The ultimate origin of existence is beyond human scope, so far as we can tell, yes. We can continue to push the existence point further and further back, but there is always an origin point that is likely to remain outside our scope of empirical knowledge.

Ergo metaphysical answers, including the existence of a supreme being always have some validity. If you water it down enough, the existence of a "creator" cannot, and likely never will be, disproved.

However that the aforementioned "creator/supreme being" is as defined by Christian tradition is very, very much up for rational debate.

And in some cases, easy to disprove.

 

[kcirdor]

This is a fair point, but one that does not apply to this conversation. The one problem is that nature and we DO exist. The question isn't whether we believe in nature and us. The question is do we believe it was an accident or that it was intelligently designed?

A more appropriate way to put that argument you linked to would be to say:

I found this perfectly square diamond. Did nature just happen to make it that way? Did someone come and cut it into a perfect square? Or did "God" make it that way?

I think the most likely answer is that someone came along and cut it that way and left it behind. The problem is that you have to believe in aliens to use that answer for nature, the planet and all the perfectly designed DNA of creatures around us.

the invisible dragon analogy is perfect for this conversion.

 

[Taurus]

This is a fair point, but one that does not apply to this conversation. The one problem is that nature and we DO exist. The question isn't whether we believe in nature and us. The question is do we believe it was an accident or that it was intelligently designed?

A more appropriate way to put that argument you linked to would be to say:

I found this perfectly square diamond. Did nature just happen to make it that way? Did someone come and cut it into a perfect square? Or did "God" make it that way?

I think the most likely answer is that someone came along and cut it that way and left it behind. The problem is that you have to believe in aliens to use that answer for nature, the planet and all the perfectly designed DNA of creatures around us.

Perfectly designed, yet undergoing constant, neverending revision. Que?

 

[IowaSaintsFan]

I disagree with the notion that all creationists believe the earth is 6000 years old. I certainly don't believe that. For years, Christians, I admit, have brought a lot of the criticism from Atheists on themselves by saying something not even their own Bible says. Nowhere does it say or infer that the earth is 6000 years old.

I can also say that there actually is strong evidence to show the existence of a creator--evidence that doesn't eliminate all doubt, but certainly reasonable doubt. We can trace the origins of all matter, space, and time in our universe back to a single point, from which something came from nothing (Nothing, here being defined as the absence of any matter, space, or time). Why is it so difficult to entertain the possibility that maybe something actually didn't come from nothing? Maybe it's just that whatever originated the universe existed outside the context of the universe--which it would naturally have to do!

I also disagree with the notion that science only deals with what happened milliseconds after the Big Bang occured. Science defined is simply knowledge. There is something to be known before the Big Bang.

The question remains unanswered: If there is no creator, then why is there something rather than nothing?

I challenge anyone here to give a logical alternative to the existence of a creator to explain the Big Bang / origin of the universe.

 

[Charlie Brizzown]

I challenge anyone here to give a logical alternative to the existence of a creator to explain the Big Bang / origin of the universe.

That's the beauty of science, it says we don't yet know ... an intellectually honest answer. Religion fills the gap for people who are not comfortable with that answer.

 

[jpcdolphan]

Why would a "creator" need a Universe?

 

[kcirdor]

He is pretty vain. He likes to experiement with animals, see if they will love him. Then let them burn in hell if they dont. He also created his test subjects to look like him.

Excuse me ,that is the humanity that is vain to create a god in our image.

 

[V Chip]

The question remains unanswered: If there is no creator, then why is there something rather than nothing?

I challenge anyone here to give a logical alternative to the existence of a creator to explain the Big Bang / origin of the universe.

Because it ("something") has always been here.

How is that any less logical then "A Being that exists beyond time/space/matter created it?"

Just because you don't want to accept it doesn't mean it isn't as perfectly valid of an answer as "God did it."

 

[Taurus]

I disagree with the notion that all creationists believe the earth is 6000 years old. I certainly don't believe that. For years, Christians, I admit, have brought a lot of the criticism from Atheists on themselves by saying something not even their own Bible says. Nowhere does it say or infer that the earth is 6000 years old.

I can also say that there actually is strong evidence to show the existence of a creator--evidence that doesn't eliminate all doubt, but certainly reasonable doubt. We can trace the origins of all matter, space, and time in our universe back to a single point, from which something came from nothing (Nothing, here being defined as the absence of any matter, space, or time). Why is it so difficult to entertain the possibility that maybe something actually didn't come from nothing? Maybe it's just that whatever originated the universe existed outside the context of the universe--which it would naturally have to do!

"Whatever". "It". From there we get to bearded duded who gets off on tormenting Egyptians how?

I also disagree with the notion that science only deals with what happened milliseconds after the Big Bang occured. Science defined is simply knowledge. There is something to be known before the Big Bang.

No, there isn't. Because the notion of 'before' there was such a thing as Time is nonsensical. Unless Time was happening somewhere outside our dimension, from whence some event caused matter to happen inside our universe.

The question remains unanswered: If there is no creator, then why is there something rather than nothing?

It remains unanswered because it's a meaningless question. Why wouldn't there be something? Do you know of a force or mechanism preventing it which a Creator is needed in order to overcome? Heck, just reverse it, does it really make any less sense? If the natural state of the universe was "stuff", we'd need a Creator (Destructor, in this example) in order to have "nothing".

I challenge anyone here to give a logical alternative to the existence of a creator to explain the Big Bang / origin of the universe.

Not a Creator, but an Event.

Done.

I want my cookie.

 

[bergeaux]

"Whatever". "It". From there we get to bearded duded who gets off on tormenting Egyptians how?

No, there isn't. Because the notion of 'before' there was such a thing as Time is nonsensical. Unless Time was happening somewhere outside our dimension, from whence some event caused matter to happen inside our universe.


It remains unanswered because it's a meaningless question. Why wouldn't there be something? Do you know of a force or mechanism preventing it which a Creator is needed in order to overcome? Heck, just reverse it, does it really make any less sense? If the natural state of the universe was "stuff", we'd need a Creator (Destructor, in this example) in order to have "nothing".

Not a Creator, but an Event.

Done.

I want my cookie.

Even before I believed in God, I had a hard time wrapping my head around "forever" and now as a Christian, the idea of "eternity" still is incomprehensible. I think anyone who says that they "get" eternity or forever is full of it. Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Athiest. It doesn't matter, still a mind boggling thought.

 

[dtc]

This is a fair point, but one that does not apply to this conversation. The one problem is that nature and we DO exist. The question isn't whether we believe in nature and us. The question is do we believe it was an accident or that it was intelligently designed?

A more appropriate way to put that argument you linked to would be to say:

I found this perfectly square diamond. Did nature just happen to make it that way? Did someone come and cut it into a perfect square? Or did "God" make it that way?

I think the most likely answer is that someone came along and cut it that way and left it behind. The problem is that you have to believe in aliens to use that answer for nature, the planet and all the perfectly designed DNA of creatures around us.

If god has time to make perfectly square diamonds I think he should invest it more wisely and figure out how to make good french bread available outside of NOLA.

 

[dtc]

I disagree with the notion that all creationists believe the earth is 6000 years old. I certainly don't believe that. For years, Christians, I admit, have brought a lot of the criticism from Atheists on themselves by saying something not even their own Bible says. Nowhere does it say or infer that the earth is 6000 years old.

I can also say that there actually is strong evidence to show the existence of a creator--evidence that doesn't eliminate all doubt, but certainly reasonable doubt. We can trace the origins of all matter, space, and time in our universe back to a single point, from which something came from nothing (Nothing, here being defined as the absence of any matter, space, or time). Why is it so difficult to entertain the possibility that maybe something actually didn't come from nothing? Maybe it's just that whatever originated the universe existed outside the context of the universe--which it would naturally have to do!

I also disagree with the notion that science only deals with what happened milliseconds after the Big Bang occured. Science defined is simply knowledge. There is something to be known before the Big Bang.

The question remains unanswered: If there is no creator, then why is there something rather than nothing?

I challenge anyone here to give a logical alternative to the existence of a creator to explain the Big Bang / origin of the universe.

Actually, I went with some friends as a little boy to a Baptist Church that was right behind Slidell High School. They took me to Sunday School and the teacher was busy adding up how old the earth was based on some OT passage telling how old people were. I'll never, ever forget that they were proving that the world was definitively created 5000 years BC.

Even at 6 or 7, that seemed rEdiculous.

 

[MLU]

Actually, I think the problem is that nobody can prove anything.

There is plenty that can be proven, but people refuse to accept it or search for it. The problem is that people will believe anything.