Evidence for God (1 Viewer)

[MLU]

One popular question I have heard posed to Atheists is:

"If there is no intelligent creator, then why is there something rather than nothing?"

The question remains unanswered: If there is no creator, then why is there something rather than nothing?

I challenge anyone here to give a logical alternative to the existence of a creator to explain the Big Bang / origin of the universe.

This isn't evidence that there is a creator. It's only evidence of our limitations of knowledge. Just because you don't know the answer, it isn't justification for you to make up some wild story and accept it as proof. That's simply not what sane and intelligent people do.

 

[St. Widge]

That seems duplicitous. If someone says that God did it, they have to prove it. If you say that it's a random action that organisms began and evolved into humans, you don't have to prove it?

I never said that.

What he said.

What I said.

You just said you don't have to prove what you believe.

I didn't say that.

Exactly, so that's why you cannot say "I believe we are here from random accident" and say that it's not a faith in something you can't prove.

I said you can prove it to the extent that anything can be proven. It's a scientific hypothesis at this point. I think it's currently the best theory, but I'm not convinced of abiogenesis. As for if it as random or not, I haven't seen any proof that it is not random so it is logical to believe it is until proven otherwise. That has nothing to do with faith.

 

[StChadwick]

The teacher was busy adding up how old the earth was based on some OT passage telling how old people were. I'll never, ever forget that they were proving that the world was definitively created 5000 years BC. Even at 6 or 7, that seemed rEdiculous.

Maybe she counted the 77 generations from Adam to Jesus in the Old and New testaments?

 

[St. Widge]

Faith: confidence or trust in a person or thing (sourced from Dictionary.com)

Is that really what you mean when you say you have faith in god? I really doubt it. I think you mean much more than that. Moreover, that definition of faith ignores the reason why you have trust in a thing. That is the difference between science and religious faith. If you want to say that I have trust and confidence in science, I agree with you and if that's faith in science then I have it. But, I think you mean a whole lot more when you say you have faith in god.

 

[krazy9000]

This is a fair point, but one that does not apply to this conversation. The one problem is that nature and we DO exist. The question isn't whether we believe in nature and us. The question is do we believe it was an accident or that it was intelligently designed?

A more appropriate way to put that argument you linked to would be to say:

I found this perfectly square diamond. Did nature just happen to make it that way? Did someone come and cut it into a perfect square? Or did "God" make it that way?

I think the most likely answer is that someone came along and cut it that way and left it behind. The problem is that you have to believe in aliens to use that answer for nature, the planet and all the perfectly designed DNA of creatures around us.

It actually applies perfectly to this conversation, as the OP posted a website supposedly "proving" gods existence. The proof contained within is little more than burnt fingers and eye witness stories. Along with it come the commentators that say they shouldn't have to supply proof as to why god exists and it is US that should have to supply proof as to why he DOESN'T exist. From Sagan's essay:

"Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder."

That applies perfectly to the argument of god's existence.

 

[dtc]

Maybe she counted the 77 generations from Adam to Jesus in the Old and New testaments?

Sounds right. It's been 35 years, but I recall a bunch of 800 yr old people being counted.

 

[FleurDeLeap]

Besides the fact that I already believe in God and don't need proof, when my friend's mom had a tumor the size of a tennis ball that disappeared over night, and the doctors scattered everywhere trying to find an answer, we all knew it was God working miracles.

 

[from the plaines]

This was a good thread, its too bad it went they way of the other EE religion threads

 

[kcirdor]

you expect anything less?

 

[Surviving Saint]

Besides the fact that I already believe in God and don't need proof, when my friend's mom had a tumor the size of a tennis ball that disappeared over night, and the doctors scattered everywhere trying to find an answer, we all knew it was God working miracles.

Why are those miracles not performed on every single human being that ever had or has cancer? Working in mysterious ways is not good enough either.

 

[IowaSaintsFan]

Because it ("something") has always been here.

How is that any less logical then "A Being that exists beyond time/space/matter created it?"

Just because you don't want to accept it doesn't mean it isn't as perfectly valid of an answer as "God did it."

I'm glad you at least admit that Atheism isn't any more "logical" than Creationism. It's a start. Still, one of them must be true. To me, the principles of cause/effect relationships demand that this universe, which is an effect, has a cause. Creationists don't claim that God is an effect of anything. Even if you ask the question, "where did God come from?", which is a valid question, you still have to ask the question, "where did the universe come from?" Personally, I think it's much more logical and intellectually honest to say you're not sure whether there is a God (Agnositcism) than to say you know without a doubt there is no God (Atheism). Agnosticism says "I'm not sure." Atheism says, "I have checked everywhere there is to check, and I know nobodoy's out there," which is impossible to do.

 

[Utah Saints]

I'm glad you at least admit that Atheism isn't any more "logical" than Creationism. It's a start. Still, one of them must be true. To me, the principles of cause/effect relationships demand that this universe, which is an effect, has a cause. Creationists don't claim that God is an effect of anything. Even if you ask the question, "where did God come from?", which is a valid question, you still have to ask the question, "where did the universe come from?" Personally, I think it's much more logical and intellectually honest to say you're not sure whether there is a God (Agnositcism) than to say you know without a doubt there is no God (Atheism). Agnosticism says "I'm not sure." Atheism says, "I have checked everywhere there is to check, and I know nobodoy's out there," which is impossible to do.

You are severely confused about the definitions of atheism and agnosticism.

 

[IowaSaintsFan]

Actually, I went with some friends as a little boy to a Baptist Church that was right behind Slidell High School. They took me to Sunday School and the teacher was busy adding up how old the earth was based on some OT passage telling how old people were. I'll never, ever forget that they were proving that the world was definitively created 5000 years BC.

Even at 6 or 7, that seemed rEdiculous.

That way of calculating it is presumptuous because it assumes that a very short time passed between the creation of Adam and Eve and the Fall. We don't know how long they lived in the garden (thousands of years, maybe more?) before the temptation. It also doesn't tell us how much time passed between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. (see Gap Theory)

 

[from the plaines]

you expect anything less?

Eh, I try to hope for the best. Its interesting to hear others people ideas. But it seems people are more talking to each other, instead have a conversation. Its not as interesting or fun

 

[jpcdolphan]

You are severely confused about the definitions of atheism and agnosticism.

I agree.

By that logic, everyone (including believers) have to be agnostic since there is no definitive proof either way.

Unless God has been holding news conferences lately that I've missed.