Falcons TE coach Kevin Koger declines to interview for Saints OC position (8 Viewers)

[No2DC]

I don’t think it’s that. I think Nussmeir is OC and Staley is DC. However, b4 they can hire both they have to comply w/ Rooney Rule.

No surprise both initial candidates are black.

Such is why I hate this rule, ends up being a slap in the face to minority candidates. People know who they want to hire, let them hire them right off. Forcing them to go this route only annoys both parties and it’s disingenuous

It has become a joke at this point. I mean, posters routinely mention it like taxes or jury duty now. If a person is black or considered a person of color, the first assumption is not that they are being considered; the team is just checking an HR box.

 

[Rouxble]

I would love for there to be a way for younger position coaches from the NFL and college to get exposure to team executives. Like have events where they do a speed dating type thing where they get to know each other a little to get impressions of their football acumen and histories. They could choose 1/4 of GMs, HCs, OCs, DCs, etc. each year and do it on a rotating basis so that everyone is getting exposure to everyone with the fear of tampering with other teams.

The NFL does have an accelerator program that is similar to what you’re describing:

NFL's accelerator program gives minority coaches optimism that new system works

Getting lessons on how to manage a crisis and deal with the media will help Houston quarterbacks coach Jerrod Johnson and New York Giants offensive coordinator Mike Kafka when and if they interview for NFL head coaching jobs.

apnews.com

 

[No2DC]

I have a theory on why black coaches haven’t had great success historically and I hope people are open to it.

A coach is typically a father/paternal figure. The NFL is majority black, and it’s also a physical passionate sport, the players have to be reigned in a bit.

If you were a black kid, that didn’t grow up w/ your dad In the home, and suddenly around your teenage years he appears and tries to assert some level of control or dominance, would you respect it, or reject it.

History suggest rejection. No one rejects a black man’s authority more than a black child that didn’t grow up w/ many black father figures around. He doesn’t relate to him and thus there was an entire generation of black players that simply rejected the leadership of other black men.

It’s a generational thing, it’s a wound, and it takes time to heal. Is it healing? Absolutely, there are more successful black coaches and HC’s in the the NFL and college than b4 and that’s not because of the Rooney rule, it’s because they are having success connecting because fewer black men are incarcerated or dead than before. They are more present for child rearing and thus the newer generation that’s coming in has more respect for them.

They see them more they are familiar w/ them.

As time progresses more black coaches will continue to be successful and ultimately people are hired on their potential for success…not just color.

It just happened that the coaches that were must successful w/ connecting w/ the black players happened to be the white.

In theory, my theory. But that theory has a happy ending…it just takes time.

That's a loaded statement because I would argue success cannot be accurately assessed without a balance of opportunity. If one can demonstrate that many one-and-done HCs are black, that counters impact the success rate. What happened in NE and LV this year is a reflection of that.
Obviously, if you have a losing season, getting fired should not be a surprise. However, black coaches in a first-time HC are rarely in an environment of patience.
You cannot force people to hang out in places they do not hang- out, and the NFL is a reflection of society.
Due to the broader political discussions that are happening in the US , I think that's all I can say on this type of board without wandering into politics and history.

 

[Elvis]

The NFL does have an accelerator program that is similar to what you’re describing:

NFL's accelerator program gives minority coaches optimism that new system works

Getting lessons on how to manage a crisis and deal with the media will help Houston quarterbacks coach Jerrod Johnson and New York Giants offensive coordinator Mike Kafka when and if they interview for NFL head coaching jobs.

apnews.com

I didn't mean for only minority candidates though, I meant for all young position coaches from the NFL and college. The NFL is a black dominant sport and I don't believe head coaches and GMs are racist despite some emails from a certain former Raiders coach. The team owners I question a bit more, but not the people working together day in and day out on the football side of things. With so many former players from every level of the game looking to remain a part of it, there is going to be a large number of minority candidates among them. A huge part of bringing guys up through the ranks in general is getting exposure to them. I also think that as older coaches and GMs are replaced by a younger generation that the racial divide will reduce as well. Or maybe I'm dreaming. But I like to think I'm not.

 

[soggymoss84]

I have a theory on why black coaches haven’t had great success historically and I hope people are open to it.

A coach is typically a father/paternal figure. The NFL is majority black, and it’s also a physical passionate sport, the players have to be reigned in a bit.

If you were a black kid, that didn’t grow up w/ your dad In the home, and suddenly around your teenage years he appears and tries to assert some level of control or dominance, would you respect it, or reject it.

History suggest rejection. No one rejects a black man’s authority more than a black child that didn’t grow up w/ many black father figures around. He doesn’t relate to him and thus there was an entire generation of black players that simply rejected the leadership of other black men.

It’s a generational thing, it’s a wound, and it takes time to heal. Is it healing? Absolutely, there are more successful black coaches and HC’s in the the NFL and college than b4 and that’s not because of the Rooney rule, it’s because they are having success connecting because fewer black men are incarcerated or dead than before. They are more present for child rearing and thus the newer generation that’s coming in has more respect for them.

They see them more they are familiar w/ them.

As time progresses more black coaches will continue to be successful and ultimately people are hired on their potential for success…not just color.

It just happened that the coaches that were must successful w/ connecting w/ the black players happened to be the white.

In theory, my theory. But that theory has a happy ending…it just takes time.

My theory on it is alot of players that fizzle out in the league become coaches. You see alot more AA players than anyone else in the league and they stay around for years making millions of dollars. Alot of them want to just retire and be with their families once their playing career is over as they already have all the money they could ever want. Not the same for players that fizzled out in the league and didn’t make that money, not because they weren’t smart, but because they just didn’t have the athletic ability to make it (Sean, Kellen etc).

I also believe you see more guys that were QB’s and LB’ers as coaches, they tend to be the smartest guys on the field, and not coincidentally two of the highest paid positions, but with far fewer fizzles.

 

[St. Widge]

Didn’t want to be a Rooney rule marker.

Yep. It's likely a combination of his getting the feeling from the first two interviews that he was just being used as a Rooney Rule filler and he didn't want a dead end OC job under a play caller HC.

 

[Judge_Smails]

My theory on it is alot of players that fizzle out in the league become coaches. You see alot more AA players than anyone else in the league and they stay around for years making millions of dollars. Alot of them want to just retire and be with their families once their playing career is over as they already have all the money they could ever want. Not the same for players that fizzled out in the league and didn’t make that money, not because they weren’t smart, but because they just didn’t have the athletic ability to make it (Sean, Kellen etc).

I also believe you see more guys that were QB’s and LB’ers as coaches, they tend to be the smartest guys on the field.

Sure, some coaches are former, backup/practice squad type NFL players, but not enough to declare it a dominant trend. A lot of current and past HCs were also good/solid NFL players. Here’s a few current ones, off the top of my:

Aaron Glenn
Jim Harbaugh
Demeco Ryans
Dan Campbell
Mike Vrabel

 

[Saint KayBee]

To everyone saying how Kyle Pitts has been underwhelming and somehow ascribing that solely to Kevin Koger, you’re all off-base. Koger has only been Pitts’ position coach this most recent season. Former NFL TE and current Bucs TE coach Justin Peelle was the TE coach for the Falcons in his first three seasons.

 

[soggymoss84]

Sure, some coaches are former, backup/practice squad type NFL players, but not enough to declare it a dominant trend. A lot of current and past HCs were also good/solid NFL players. Here’s a few current ones, off the top of my:

Aaron Glenn
Jim Harbaugh
Demeco Ryans
Dan Campbell
Mike Vrabel

Alot of those guys didn’t make huge money as players though. Ryans tops the list with around 50 million made for his career. Glenn is right behind him.

Harbaugh averaged something like 450k a year for his playing career. Vrabel made 17million over an 8 year career. Campbell made something like 13-14 million total. None of those guys received these 100 million career earnings you’re seeing these days.

 

[Judge_Smails]

Alot of those guys didn’t make huge money as players though. Ryans tops the list with around 50 million made for his career. Glenn is right behind him.

Harbaugh averaged something like 450k a year for his playing career. Vrabel made 17million over an 8 year career. Campbell made something like 13-14 million total. None of those guys received these 100 million career earnings you’re seeing these days.

All the guys I listed made enough money to be set for life.

The “100 million career earnings guys” are either still playing (so who knows if any of them will coach) or are like 1% of former players.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

It has become a joke at this point. I mean, posters routinely mention it like taxes or jury duty now. If a person is black or considered a person of color, the first assumption is not that they are being considered; the team is just checking an HR box.

Exactly why the rule shouldn’t be there. It just creates unnecessary situations all around and it’s uncomfortable for everyone involved.

That's a loaded statement because I would argue success cannot be accurately assessed without a balance of opportunity. If one can demonstrate that many one-and-done HCs are black, that counters impact the success rate. What happened in NE and LV this year is a reflection of that.
Obviously, if you have a losing season, getting fired should not be a surprise. However, black coaches in a first-time HC are rarely in an environment of patience.
You cannot force people to hang out in places they do not hang- out, and the NFL is a reflection of society.
Due to the broader political discussions that are happening in the US , I think that's all I can say on this type of board without wandering into politics and history.

I think opportunities exist, as I said just look around. There are more black HC and coaches in general in the NFL and College than there were 20 years ago, and 20 years b4 that.

It’s a slow process, should there and could there be more opportunities? Yes, are there more than previous Yes. Will those opportunities continue to increase? Yes

Like I said…nature works on its on. There’s no Rooney rule in the natural order of things that looks to accelerate a process. Things happen on their own time and that’s proven true.

Patience is virtue, things aren’t perfect but they are less flawed than before. Things like the Rooney rule actually exasperate the flaw even though in theory it was intended to do the opposite.

It’s like DEI training. That didn’t work in the way it was intended and there’s a reason…it’s another forced action.

There isn’t a soul on this planet that responds well to being forced into something.

 

[SpeckKillerII]

He either declined because he knew there was no way he would call plays, or because he felt he was a rooney rule interview

It probably won’t be real easy to get a good OC because for all intents and purposes Kellen Moore is the OC.

 

[Fiyo]

It’s pretty simple and obvious to me. In the long run, the Eagles choose between Patullo and Nussmeier, as far as which on they think will be the best playcaller losing KM, and the other will join KM in New Orleans in a next-man up kind of role.

 

[KCWhoDat]

lol …..I can respect that though. Dirty Falcon….

 

[StudioSaint]

Exactly why the rule shouldn’t be there. It just creates unnecessary situations all around and it’s uncomfortable for everyone involved.

I think opportunities exist, as I said just look around. There are more black HC and coaches in general in the NFL and College than there were 20 years ago, and 20 years b4 that.

A large part of that is because of the Rooney Rule and equal access and opportunity rules. There's a very strong direct correlation between when those efforts started and the increase in black coaches. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Will those opportunities continue to increase? Yes

Without the Rooney Rule I think there'd still be opportunities, but I think there would be less. If the Rooney Rule were eliminated, I think the number of black head coaches in the NFL would start decreasing.

Like I said…nature works on its on. There’s no Rooney rule in the natural order of things that looks to accelerate a process. Things happen on their own time and that’s proven true.

Nature is not linear. It goes back and forth between calm and catastrophe, better and worse. A lot of laws and rules that we have as humans is to dissuade us from acting on our more harmful and disruptive natural tendencies. I think the Rooney Rule is one of those rules. No human process is perfect, because of the humans in it.

The benefit of the Rooney Rule is not just giving minority coaches a chance for an interview. The bigger benefit is that it's a reminder that giving equal access and opportunity is important enough that we have a rule for it.

If they get rid of the Rooney Rule, the message is that giving equal access and opportunity is not important enough to have a rule for it. That to me is a not a good idea.

Patience is virtue, things aren’t perfect but they are less flawed than before.

As a result of the Rooney Rule and other equal access and opportunity rules and efforts. Take those away and you are more likely to see things get worse than you are to see them stay on course.

Things like the Rooney rule actually exasperate the flaw even though in theory it was intended to do the opposite.

I disagree for the reasons I've explained above.

It’s like DEI training. That didn’t work in the way it was intended...

It actually has worked as intended in lot of places. This blanket statement is not factually accurate. You've probably seen it not work as intended firsthand, but I can tell you I have seen firsthand in several instances it has worked better than intended.

and there’s a reason…it’s another forced action.

Every law is a forced action, but the laws work much better than not having any laws at all. The formative years of our lives were spent under the forced actions of our parents. Since you like to reference nature and the natural, there isn't a single communal species that doesn't have their own sets of forced action. It's a completely natural and necessary thing for a communal species and we are one of the most complex communal species that there is.

There isn’t a soul on this planet that responds well to being forced into something.

Everyone of us drives on the right side of the road without giving a second thought to why we do. Okay, you, got me. In some countries, it's the left side of the road. After a few generations, a rule doesn't feel forced. Just like you don't feel forced to drive on the right side of the road. It seems natural to you.

I want to point out that the fact that some people feel the Rooney Rule is forcing people to provide at least a small level of equal access and opportunity, means we still need the rule. You often say that an interview is just because of the Rooney Rule. If that's true, then without the Rooney Rule those interviews go away and so does any opportunities that stem from them.