Have we seen the last of Taysom’s Joker role? (3 Viewers)

[jasonsw]

My one thought about your assumption, outside of the QB debate, is that we have 1 (one) WR that is better than Dozer (household nickname), and we have 1 (one) RB that is better than him.... and the are both exceptionally freakin phenomenal players at those positions. What Taysom has done in the Joker role should not be downplayed. No other player that has done anything similar in the history of the NFL, has come close to doing it as well as Dozer does it.

Taysom could've been great at TE .

 

[JPSaints87]

No, not really. But it is starting to become little more obviously in some cases. Coach P just needs to be more creative when using both Winston & Hill. Especially when they both are on the field at the same time.

 

[Fiyo]

For this year, I agree. But, what about when the season is over and the Saints have to renegotiate his contract? Will Taysom renegotiate and remain with the Saints or go elsewhere? I'm guessing the Saints thought of that when they gave him that contract. I just don't understand that contract because it puts the Saints at risk at losing Taysom if he's not the starter. Maybe the Saints see a Taysom clone in the draft?

And his name is Jamie Newman

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

Cant evaluate Jameis on the SF game. We had a lead and their offense is terrible. All we had to do was avoid mistakes. Plus he hadn’t practiced all week with the 1s.

Taysom had four weeks where he practiced with the 1s and showed why he isn’t a starting QB in the NFL.

And he had no offseason or true training camp to establish a familiarity or rhythm with the offense.

 

[saint_drago]

Just based on what I've seen he's the best at what he does when he's doing his Joker thing. Matter of fact, he's the only guy in the league who can do what he does.

So he's an A+ player at Joker. At QB he's more of a C- guy. Do you want him to be an awesome A+ weapon or a C- QB? Awesome or mediocre? Easy decision for SP. Let Taysom be Taysom.

 

[whodatphil]

He’s gonna play LB or CB if he loses out to jameis lol

 

[nakadish]

Just based on what I've seen he's the best at what he does when he's doing his Joker thing. Matter of fact, he's the only guy in the league who can do what he does.

So he's an A+ player at Joker. At QB he's more of a C- guy. Do you want him to be an awesome A+ weapon or a C- QB? Awesome or mediocre? Easy decision for SP. Let Taysom be Taysom.

I don't think it's fair to judge either QB without a full offseason playing 100% QB. I don't think Drew is an A QB only practicing a third of the time he normally does.

But, the point was not "is Taysom a better Joker or QB?" He's clearly a better Joker. But, do the Saints play Taysom as they have been without a backup as good as Teddy or Jameis? And, does Taysom leave after this year if he's not the starter at QB?

I find it odd that the Saints would give Taysom the contract they did unless they expected him to be the starter because they will still owe Taysom money if he's cut or traded, right? Or, maybe they figure that if Taysom doesn't renegotiate that they can trade him for a high draft pick? I don't know. It just seems odd to me if the Saints don't expect Taysom to be the starting QB.

 

[SweetT]

I don't think anyone is foolish enough to sign him as a starting QB. But, I could see someone giving him a contract to come in as a backup with a chance to compete for a starting role. Personally, I like him in the Joker role.

And, I'm not convinced that the Saints see Jameis as a significantly better option. If Jameis light it up against the Niners, do the Saints still put in a lesser QB and risk losing just because CSP made a promise to Taysom? I'm not buying that.

How many team do you see roll out a hot garbage QB on a weekly basis and you don’t think anyone would sign TH7 as a QB? Kidding right?

 

[nakadish]

I have an opinion of Taysom which is not necessarily reflected in the argument I am putting forth. I personally want to see him be the staring QB next season. I am sure people will reply that he can't play QB in the NFL, and that he fumbles too much; more on that in a bit.

But this so dubbed "joker" position, it is just a gimmick. Sure, it is cool and exciting to see this one guy do all these things, and hear the announcers say "the Saints have a QB doing this and that", but jack of all trades, master of none. The Saints have better ball runners and better ball catchers/route runners than Taysom. He doesn't bring anything special to running the ball or catching passes, other than the excitement of "having a QB doing this and that". Again, other players on the roster can run the ball better and catch the ball/run routes better than Taysom.

The true value of Taysom, x's and o's wise, is that he can run the ball from the QB position, and substitute a position in a pinch.

But then, if you (the generic you) don't think he can play QB (pass the ball effectively), and he fumbles too much, then why would you want to see him running the ball, or catching passes, or throwing the ball?

Taysom didn't really have a problem with fumbles prior to last year so I don't think it's a major concern. I think the Saints are hoping that Taysom wins the starting QB job which if why they gave them the contract they did because they are still paying him next whether he is on the team or not. And a QB with Taysom's athleticism gives Payton options that Jameis does not.

 

[nakadish]

How many team do you see roll out a hot garbage QB on a weekly basis and you don’t think anyone would sign TH7 as a QB? Kidding right?

I think a number of teams would be willing to give Taysom a shot. Other GMs have said they see Taysom as a starting QB. I don't see anyone throwing a lot of money at Taysom. But, I don't see where Taysom has anything to lose if he refuses to negotiate his contract if the Saints start Jameis over him.

 

[Ihartsaints]

Agreed. But, who says that Taysom has to stay beyond this year unless the Saints are willing to give him starting QB money? He doesn't have to agree to negotiate.

I could be as simple as "We already have a signed contract".

 

[Will Survive]

I could be as simple as "We already have a signed contract".

Don't think it is quite that simple, if you go that route he will get QB1 money. I would hope to believe that the organization would not hold a player ransom. I fully believe that if Taytay doesn't win QB1 the team will honor the contract and his wishes and let him pursue other opportunities at QB1. I also believe it was structured as such to give him a motivation to bring it all to earn that spot, and if he does earn it, I also believe that the team will honor the contract to pay him that QB1 money, possibly restructured as is our way, but pay the man none the less.

We shall see in camp, there will be competition, and I don't see it being settled any sooner than week 1, possibly longer. May the best QB win for the good of the team (sshhh, that means you Russ, quite drawing out the drama making us wait!).

 

[SystemShock]

My one thought about your assumption, outside of the QB debate, is that we have 1 (one) WR that is better than Dozer (household nickname), and we have 1 (one) RB that is better than him.... and the are both exceptionally freakin phenomenal players at those positions. What Taysom has done in the Joker role should not be downplayed. No other player that has done anything similar in the history of the NFL, has come close to doing it as well as Dozer does it.

The one position that I can see Taysom being as good as the players who play that position is TE, but that is because the Saints are have been deficient at TE, both in playing the personnel (why they kept throwing the ball to Cook and not Trautman who flashed?; TE is mostly a blocking position since Graham, Watson) and picking the personnel (Cook... no one since Graham, Watson) . But RB, WR, no.

RB's, obviously not better than Kamara, and I don't think he's better than Murray, and Murray lines up as a RB and there is virtually no risk of him throwing the ball.

WR's, obviously not better than Thomas, but is he a better receiver than T'Q? Deonte? Callaway? I don't think so.

And just to clarify, I am not downplaying what Taysom does, in that he can play all of those positions and play them relatively well, but that doesn't mean the players who actually play those positions 100% of the time cannot do it better than him, which I think they can.

 

[nakadish]

Don't think it is quite that simple, if you go that route he will get QB1 money. I would hope to believe that the organization would not hold a player ransom. I fully believe that if Taytay doesn't win QB1 the team will honor the contract and his wishes and let him pursue other opportunities at QB1. I also believe it was structured as such to give him a motivation to bring it all to earn that spot, and if he does earn it, I also believe that the team will honor the contract to pay him that QB1 money, possibly restructured as is our way, but pay the man none the less.

We shall see in camp, there will be competition, and I don't see it being settled any sooner than week 1, possibly longer. May the best QB win for the good of the team (sshhh, that means you Russ, quite drawing out the drama making us wait!).

But in this case, it's the player that has the ability to hold the Saints hostage - give me QB1 money or trade or cut me. A restructure only works if the player is willing to restructure. The Saints certainly won't give Taysom QB1 money unless he's QB1. I don't understand why the Saints didn't give Taysom a multiyear deal with incentives that would give him starter money if he's QB1. It seems like a bad contract to me unless they fully believe that Taysom will be QB1. Because if he's not QB1, I think it's likely that he's playing elsewhere, and I don't think Payton wants that.

 

[madake63]

But in this case, it's the player that has the ability to hold the Saints hostage - give me QB1 money or trade or cut me. A restructure only works if the player is willing to restructure. The Saints certainly won't give Taysom QB1 money unless he's QB1. I don't understand why the Saints didn't give Taysom a multiyear deal with incentives that would give him starter money if he's QB1. It seems like a bad contract to me unless they fully believe that Taysom will be QB1. Because if he's not QB1, I think it's likely that he's playing elsewhere, and I don't think Payton wants that.

The Saints realize Taysom might leave in 22 to pursue his QB1 dream so you can bet they will give him every opportunity to win the job. They will not take a mediocre Jameis for a Taysom in the rear view mirror. That's why I don't understand the supreme confidence that Jameis will be the #1. You're expecting him to be someone else...that's what it will take.