Head Coach if there is no GM change (1 Viewer)

[St. Geezy]

I will not lay down and take insults when people try to bully me. I will go after injustice no matter where it shows up. I have stood up to bullies my whole life.

Likewise. And I feel like I am being bullied behind a fairly reasonable assessment of what’s being done here, but it goes against the forum initiative of Loomis is the devil, so here we are.

 

[St. Geezy]

You had an incident in the off season with Elvis where you internet tough guy'd him in DMs... you had another incident with another poster not long after that, I can't recall their name(edit:I remember now, Tapxe). Then you dropped one on me during the discussion over hip drop tackles.... Then you had a assumption incident with System Shock which I assume is when you unblocked me because I made sure to clown every time I saw you treating someone that way.

We are talking about this thread. I can go down a laundry list of your indiscretions throughout history too but that’s not important.

You use every opportunity possible to deflect onto others what you do and I have no interest in that sort of behavior or engaging in this sort of dialogue.

You love “gang up” opportunities. Not just with me but throughout the forum, and this has provided you with another.

 

[Hedon James]

No, you didn't say he was an ignorant dumbarse, but that is how your initial post came off. Whether or not his post was his opinion doesn't matter, it was the scoffing, dismissive & rude nature of your initial response that I took issue with.

Agree with you Andrus. Not sure that was what the poster intended, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But that's how it came across to me also.

IMO, we have WAY too much of this on this forum lately. And it revolves around a fundamental lack of clarifying questions to understand, such as: what do you mean my that? or "how did you arrive at that conclusion?" or "do I understand you correctly that.....", or something similar?

Instead, we get a WHOLE LOT of "i believe you said something I disagree with...what you said is wrong and/or stupid...here is my eloquent rebuttal."

And I haven't asked any questions (yet) either, but I'm not sure what the disagreement is about. I honestly think both sides are saying the SAME thing! The OP indicates that, IMO, the perceived "top candidates" will find other franchises to be more appealing destinations. If we take off our B&G glasses for a moment, we'd realize the best attributes for the Saints organization are ownership's willingness to spend and/or provide the necessary tools, and stability for tenure. Other teams can provide that also (not all, but some). But we have no franchise QB to build around; we don't have a high pick to draft one; we have numerous holes in the roster and almost NO depth; we haven't traditionally provided/acquired many draft assets crucial for a reset/rebuild; and we have minimal cap space to mitigate with FA.

None of this means the Saints won't acquire a good coach! It just means the most desirable/sought candidates (cough, cough...Ben Johnson) will likely have better options on the table. THAT is what the OP was saying, and I think that is an apparent conclusion. And to be perfectly clear, I'm not even sure Ben Johnson will be a good HC. JMO.

And the rebuttals are right too. Just because the Saints aren't likely to land the most popular candidates doesn't mean they won't land a GOOD HC. It is well known that CSP wanted the Green Bay job, but when his agent called him in the middle of the Saints interview process to tell him Green Bay was hiring Mike McCarthy (who also had connections and familiarity with the Saints organization as QB coach and/or OC under Haslett), he fell in our lap. I don't know if CSP was our top choice, or consolation prize; but we were clearly HIS consolation prize. (side note...anyone remember who we interviewed besides CSP?) And to be perfectly honest, I don't care. It's empirical evidence that your backup choice isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, might be the best thing to happen to the Saints since CSP and DB9.

In conclusion, the rebutters are also right...someone is going to JUMP at their opportunity with the Saints organization. There are only 32 of these jobs in the world, and even the highest estimates project there are likely to be less than 6-8 opportunities this hiring cycle. 6-8 guys are going to get hired, with EVERYONE ELSE passed over. And the OP is also right....we're likely not going to attract the most "in demand" candidates. But NEITHER of these statements indicate we won't be able to hire a GOOD HC candidate!

So if both sides are right, what exactly IS the argument?

 

[St. Geezy]

Your very first contribution to this thread is a veiled insult. And you are just making sheet up. I keep stats. When you insulted me, kept the stats since then... I don't wait for gang up opportunities.. i point out when you do it again.. and I'll do it again in the future. Thank you.


Now i am going to clean up my contributions to this thread and keep it what it should be focused on.

Kept stats eh? Sounds like the type of thing someone always in battles with people has to do. Have fun with that.

 

[Hedon James]

Corrected, it was Fassel

didn't mean to correct you bro...honestly was asking about something under Parcells that maybe I didn't know about, or remember? not a big deal to me who was "right" in this matter, I just appreciate comparing notes and getting the story correct, because I honestly thought you knew something I didn't. this forum needs more of that, IMO. We're good brutha!

 

[44slayer]

didn't mean to correct you bro...honestly was asking about something under Parcells that maybe I didn't know about, or remember? not a big deal to me who was "right" in this matter, I just appreciate comparing notes and getting the story correct, because I honestly thought you knew something I didn't. this forum needs more of that, IMO. We're good brutha!

No big deal, you were right. It was Fassel. I remember Parcells giving Payton the business at one point, but you are right, it was Fassel who demoted him. I wasn't being testy broseph, I was genuinely correcting a mistake.

 

[Hedon James]

No big deal, you were right. It was Fassel. I remember Parcells giving Payton the business at one point, but you are right, it was Fassel who demoted him. I wasn't being testy broseph, I was genuinely correcting a mistake.

Broseph....haha....LMAO! I didn't take it as testy. we've had way too much of that on this forum in recent months, and your response just stood out as.....CLASSY. I'm not the arbiter of truth on here, and I don't always have all the facts, so I wanted an honest dialogue, and I got one. RESPECT to you, and again, CLASSY! I wanted to call that out. We're good. Carry on!

 

[Elvis]

Some of the things people are coming up with to bash Loomis are becoming silly. Just thinking up weird hypotheticals out of thin air. Come on man.

The fact is that the organization is in shambles and has been for years now. He is responsible for that. It comes with the GM job. I think the game has passed him by. From coaching to scouts he's hiring the wrong guys to do the jobs that needs to be done and the results have proven that. I don't want to "look beyond the results" anymore than I wanted them to "keep doing what we're doing".

 

[bayoumilitia]

Some of the things people are coming up with to bash Loomis are becoming silly. Just thinking up weird hypotheticals out of thin air. Come on man.

While I agree. I will say, mindless bashing aside some of us still believe and we are entitled to our opinion that Loomis and the FO needs to go and just be reset. On what grounds? Sheer complacency, poor cap management, bad coaching decisions. Its like the scene in the movie Titanic when the boat is almost under water yet the band keeps playing music. Well ML keeps playing music. I think he would have been better off just resetting everything after we traded SP but he’s the one that told everyone that DA was the right guy. So he either honestly believed that (which is troubling in and of itself) or he was lying to everyone. Either way it’s obvious to everyone that our roster was getting older, that our cap spending habits had caught up to us, and that our attention to detail at every level of our organization had “left the building”.

Mickey can own the success we’ve had, I’m fine with that but take accountability for the the lack thereof. In my opinion and many others Mickey has not done that at all. Many other GMs in Mickey’s situation would have been long gone by now. The only reason Loomis, Lauscau, Bensel are still around is because Ms Gayle is guilty of a little blind loyalty. It’s her team, she has a decision to make at the end of the day and it won’t be any of us that decide. I get that but if you in your heart believe that Loomis is the right man to be our GM to lead this organization to our next championship without SP or Drew Brees present than I think you’re mistaken in my opinion.

 

[REBELMAX]

I’ve read all of the comments and let me clarify.

I’m not saying Joe Brady will be the Coach , I’m not saying that we can’t hire a good coach but what I am saying is that the FO/GM situation in New Orleans is a problem and that is known in the league.

Do you think it’s not known in the league that a few of the players got to Gayle and she forced the GM to fire the Head Coach ? Everyone knows that.

“Loomis hired Payton “ !
Ok let’s unpack that …

Tom Benson hired Payton. We can argue who is credited and who was the GM but - I KNOW that Benson hired Payton and assured him he would have certain controls over the roster , free agency and the draft. He had very strong personnel decision making ability which was important to him as a Parcells disciple and that was assured by the Owner. Loomis on the other hand was a bottom 5 paid GM in the NFL.

“He has always worked well with Head Coaches” … when did you hear Loomis do much talking when Benson was alive and well ? Very rarely. There was the famous meme of him with the Matrix numbers in the background. He was supposed to be the numbers genius behind the scenes.

When did that change ?

It probably changed gradually as we began winning but Loomis got very little public credit for our success ( right or wrong that’s true ) But in any event it changed. Payton’s decision to leave was he could read the writing on the wall. Some of the power he had was starting to get reeled back and ( IN MY OPINION ) he started to feel like he might become the odd man out. There was a sentiment that Loomis had really built a winning organization built to last and it was more the continuity and culture that was winning and not Payton’s direct influence.

Loomis hired DA , which was already pre discussed and agreed to , and started campaigning for the Hall of Fame , created a GM radio show , lit the Christmas lights at the Roosevelt , created a 200th Win party for himself to be recognized.


All that said - what I meant by my original post is that no guy with real decent options is going to want anything to do with this. It will likely be someone they’ve already talked to , someone that will make the control and power concessions that they want. Which will likely also be someone that doesn’t have a lot of great pathways to be an NFL Head Coach.

 

[44slayer]

I’ve read all of the comments and let me clarify.

I’m not saying Joe Brady will be the Coach , I’m not saying that we can’t hire a good coach but what I am saying is that the FO/GM situation in New Orleans is a problem and that is known in the league.

Do you think it’s not known in the league that a few of the players got to Gayle and she forced the GM to fire the Head Coach ? Everyone knows that.

“Loomis hired Payton “ !
Ok let’s unpack that …

Tom Benson hired Payton. We can argue who is credited and who was the GM but - I KNOW that Benson hired Payton and assured him he would have certain controls over the roster , free agency and the draft. He had very strong personnel decision making ability which was important to him as a Parcells disciple and that was assured by the Owner. Loomis on the other hand was a bottom 5 paid GM in the NFL.

“He has always worked well with Head Coaches” … when did you hear Loomis do much talking when Benson was alive and well ? Very rarely. There was the famous meme of him with the Matrix numbers in the background. He was supposed to be the numbers genius behind the scenes.

When did that change ?

It probably changed gradually as we began winning but Loomis got very little public credit for our success ( right or wrong that’s true ) But in any event it changed. Payton’s decision to leave was he could read the writing on the wall. Some of the power he had was starting to get reeled back and ( IN MY OPINION ) he started to feel like he might become the odd man out. There was a sentiment that Loomis had really built a winning organization built to last and it was more the continuity and culture that was winning and not Payton’s direct influence.

Loomis hired DA , which was already pre discussed and agreed to , and started campaigning for the Hall of Fame , created a GM radio show , lit the Christmas lights at the Roosevelt , created a 200th Win party for himself to be recognized.


All that said - what I meant by my original post is that no guy with real decent options is going to want anything to do with this. It will likely be someone they’ve already talked to , someone that will make the control and power concessions that they want. Which will likely also be someone that doesn’t have a lot of great pathways to be an NFL Head Coach.

While I pretty much agree with 99% of that, Im not so doom and gloomis about the next HC, IF its done with a wide net and, ideally, not Loomis. We can just assume though, that its going to be Loomis.

But you're right, no one with options will choose us over any of the other 8-9 teams with a vacancy. This is a dumpster fire and its not finished dumpstering. 2025 will likely be a continuation of 2024 IF we accept where this needs to go.

The key is going to be potentially giving someone the job that is green. Catching someone before they get hot. And yes, you're sort of throwing poop at a wall to see if it sticks, but because we aren't going to attract the top tier guys - we have to throw a hail mary so to speak on someone raw, young and with ideas.

If it fails, it fails. We are at least 1 more season from even being able to rebuild. So bring someone in raw, let him at least show potential and slowly give him pieces. If not, send him on his way and you'll have a HC opening about the same season you can truly rebuild.

 

[Nolan]

I’ve read all of the comments and let me clarify.

I’m not saying Joe Brady will be the Coach , I’m not saying that we can’t hire a good coach but what I am saying is that the FO/GM situation in New Orleans is a problem and that is known in the league.

Do you think it’s not known in the league that a few of the players got to Gayle and she forced the GM to fire the Head Coach ? Everyone knows that.

“Loomis hired Payton “ !
Ok let’s unpack that …

Tom Benson hired Payton. We can argue who is credited and who was the GM but - I KNOW that Benson hired Payton and assured him he would have certain controls over the roster , free agency and the draft. He had very strong personnel decision making ability which was important to him as a Parcells disciple and that was assured by the Owner. Loomis on the other hand was a bottom 5 paid GM in the NFL.

“He has always worked well with Head Coaches” … when did you hear Loomis do much talking when Benson was alive and well ? Very rarely. There was the famous meme of him with the Matrix numbers in the background. He was supposed to be the numbers genius behind the scenes.

When did that change ?

It probably changed gradually as we began winning but Loomis got very little public credit for our success ( right or wrong that’s true ) But in any event it changed. Payton’s decision to leave was he could read the writing on the wall. Some of the power he had was starting to get reeled back and ( IN MY OPINION ) he started to feel like he might become the odd man out. There was a sentiment that Loomis had really built a winning organization built to last and it was more the continuity and culture that was winning and not Payton’s direct influence.

Loomis hired DA , which was already pre discussed and agreed to , and started campaigning for the Hall of Fame , created a GM radio show , lit the Christmas lights at the Roosevelt , created a 200th Win party for himself to be recognized.


All that said - what I meant by my original post is that no guy with real decent options is going to want anything to do with this. It will likely be someone they’ve already talked to , someone that will make the control and power concessions that they want. Which will likely also be someone that doesn’t have a lot of great pathways to be an NFL Head Coach.

Thanks for the clarification and insight.

 

[The X-Man]

Some of the things people are coming up with to bash Loomis are becoming silly. Just thinking up weird hypotheticals out of thin air. Come on man.

What’s silly? The fact that he kicked the cap can down the road for far too long? The fact that he is better on later round picks than earlier ones? The fact that he is delusional thinking that we are close? The fact that he is INCAPABLE of getting us out of the mess he created????!?!!

 

[OldSaintFan]

If the choice is between Glenn and Joe Brady, I'm picking Brady. Allen has blossomed big time under Brady.

Has Brady been a head coach? What makes you think he could be sucessful here?