Hiring Moore = Ashton Jeanty as 1st rd pick? (6 Viewers)

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

I don't think Starks is generational, but I do think the modern NFL, there is no reason not to draft a Safety in the top 10, especially at pick #9.

I don't disagree with this, I just don't think Starks is on a level that would make drafting him inside the top 10 good value.

.There should be no absolutes in what positions you draft and where. You take the best available player at any position.

This I disagree with. Certain positions just have more impact in football games.

A perfect example of this is Bowers from last years draft. He was undoubtedly the best football player in the draft. Broke every rookie receiving TE record and yet didn't impact football games the way JD5, Bo, or Caleb did.

Certain positions have less impact than others. Safety being one of the lesser.

 

[Poppy]

Jeanty is absolutely a generational talent at RB.

I agree, but I guarantee he has fumbling issues to start his career.

 

[SweetT]

I have, but I guarantee he has fumbling issues to start his career.

Johnathan Taylor averages over 2 fumbles a season. I would still love to have him without question

 

[3ParStillDriver]

I have, but I guarantee he has fumbling issues to start his career.

At the NFL level, any coach worth their salt can coach a RB who cares out of those habitual mistakes.

 

[nakadish]

Lots of airbrushing of the facts in this for me, e.g. characterising Ruiz as terrible isn't accurate, he was a borderline starter at RG, rather than a Tony Mandarich-level bust, until he improved into a solid starter. Penning wasn't a failure this year, after two injury-dominated years to start out. The Fuaga pick was perfect meeting of need and BPA and he's been excellent, the guard talk is just fan speculation because of all the OT prospects.

And even if you were entirely accurate, none of it would warrant overdrafting just to give fans a small buzz of excitement on draft day. That doesn't win your team any games, and it never will.

For the DEs I won't argue, though

I don't use the word terrible lightly, and I don't call players terrible. I'm saying that the draft value of Ruiz was terrible, for the results we got. He wasn't very good his first two years. Not what you'd expect from a 1st round pick. And Penning, even this offseason looked like he was going to be a bust. I don't care about fan buzz. What I'm saying is that the Saints need to have a "hit", at any position - to win games because the Saints just don't have the horses to impact the game outside of a couple of aging players. And if the Saints are still looking for an impact players 2 years from now, we will be looking for a new coach again.

 

[St. Widge]

I don't disagree with this, I just don't think Starks is on a level that would make drafting him inside the top 10 good value.


This I disagree with. Certain positions just have more impact in football games.

A perfect example of this is Bowers from last years draft. He was undoubtedly the best football player in the draft. Broke every rookie receiving TE record and yet didn't impact football games the way JD5, Bo, or Caleb did.

Certain positions have less impact than others. Safety being one of the lesser.

I hear you and sure you have to take value of the position into account. I'm just saying that if Starks is BPA (I doubt he will be) and you can't get good value for a trade down or nobody wants to trade up, then you take him because then regardless of position, he is the best value.

But, I do think the undervalue the Safety position. It's at least as impactful as LB and can be as impactful as CB depending on the system. But sure, all things being equal, you would rather take a safety in the 2nd or later.

 

[TribuneUK]

I don't use the word terrible lightly, and I don't call players terrible. I'm saying that the draft value of Ruiz was terrible, for the results we got. He wasn't very good his first two years. Not what you'd expect from a 1st round pick. And Penning, even this offseason looked like he was going to be a bust. I don't care about fan buzz. What I'm saying is that the Saints need to have a "hit", at any position - to win games because the Saints just don't have the horses to impact the game outside of a couple of aging players. And if the Saints are still looking for an impact players 2 years from now, we will be looking for a new coach again.

So you mean he's got that Andrus Peat going on AKA fans don't like using a high pick on a guy that turns out to just be 'ok'. It happens.

Your terrible is not my terrible, that's fair enough.

The Saints got a horse in Fuaga last year. They can also get horses outside the first round, so it's not the only route to talent. There's no excuse for reaching for a position, impact or not.

Just as an aside, Brock Bowers is a terrific TE, an impact player by almost any measure, and yet the Raiders were demonstrably worse in the most meaningful offensive stats/rankings in 2024 than they were the year before.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

He's not wrong and I think most people view the FO as a serious weakness. However, Mick is a made man so we're stuck.

Not disagreeing. Just calling attention to some serious hypocrisy.

 

[DSnfla]

I'm not so sure the Saints failed their first round picks for Oline and Dline. Theres a lot that goes into players being successful in the NFL. Constantly we see great talent look bad, go to a different coach, and suddenly their career is revived.

We know DA's coaching staff was bad and we know in some specific cases they weren't even attempting to coach up players. With the Oline, they looked lost at times. Out of sync. It's quite possible the scheme and play calling were failing them to some degree on top of coaching failing to coach them up.

Point is, I don't think we have any idea what our players in the trenches are truly capable of because coaching has been clearly failing them since Payton left. This was to be somewhat expected for anyone who watched the Oakland Raiders to a fair degree while DA was coaching there.

Yes for the DL. Grantham was an abysmal DL coach so we can't make any real assessment of what we have in Turner,Foskey or really any of DL players

On the OL not the case. Yes Marrone is as bad or worse than Grantham but in Benton and Dennison we had two of the best. The OL problems we mostly due to injury than anything else

 

[DSnfla]

Wow that's insane.

Mickey needs to go.

You really don't know how the Saints draft room works do you? SMH , You just want any opportunity to type a fire Loomis post

 

[DSnfla]

I don't disagree with this, I just don't think Starks is on a level that would make drafting him inside the top 10 good value.


This I disagree with. Certain positions just have more impact in football games.

A perfect example of this is Bowers from last years draft. He was undoubtedly the best football player in the draft. Broke every rookie receiving TE record and yet didn't impact football games the way JD5, Bo, or Caleb did.

Certain positions have less impact than others. Safety being one of the lesser.

I think context is needed when it comes to Bowers, It's not so great a feat to break the rookie TE receiving record when the Raiders had NO , and I mean NO other weapons that Bowers. So naturally he got the bulk of the targets

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

You really don't know how the Saints draft room works do you? SMH , You just want any opportunity to type a fire Loomis post

Mickey Loomis makes the final decision in the draft room.

Guys like Ireland help out and provide insight but Mickey is the final say.

Did.... did you not know that?

 

[DSnfla]

Mickey Loomis makes the final decision in the draft room.

Guys like Ireland help out and provide insight but Mickey is the final say.

Did.... did you not know that?

LOL Ireland and the HC are the ones that make ALL the picks. They don't just " Help Out" Only if there is a disagreement does ML make the final decision, AND more likely than not he sides with the HC . ML is NOT sitting on some throne saying " I'm taking this player no natter what you guys say " SMH . This has been reported by more than a few respected people covering the Saints

 

[WhoDat?DrewDat]

LOL Ireland and the HC are the ones that make ALL the picks. They don't just " Help Out" Only if there is a disagreement does ML make the final decision, AND more likely than not he sides with the HC . ML is NOT sitting on some throne saying " I'm taking this player no natter what you guys say " SMH . This has been reported by more than a few respected people covering the Saints

From my understand and I know Nick Underhill has reported that everyone pitches in but it's Mickey who makes final decisions.

Rumor has it he's the one who overrode Ireland and picked Foskey over Branch.

Regardless the buck stops with him. Anyone in leadership will tell you this.

 

[DSnfla]

From my understand and I know Nick Underhill has reported that everyone pitches in but it's Mickey who makes final decisions.

Rumor has it he's the one who overrode Ireland and picked Foskey over Branch.

Regardless the buck stops with him. Anyone in leadership will tell you this.

From Loomis's mouth " It's a consensus between the HC and the scouting dept. If there is a disagreement then the final call is mine" If this " Rumor" you are citing is anywhere close to being true then it was only because DA and Ireland disagreed on who to take and ML had to make the call. I'll bet you $20 who wanted Foskey. My bet it was DA

Yes ultimately the buck stops with the head.

Look at it like this . You got a guy that is the mgr of vintage car dealership. Now he's great at #'s and people evaluation, but he's not the greatest at telling you whether this 63 vette is going to out perform the 73 challenger. His ast mgr says the Vette but his main mechanic says it's the Dodge. Both are for sale and the ast mgr and the mechanic can't agree. Both guys have been right and wrong before. The main guy has to pick one, more than likely he's going to go with the ast mgr. That's how the Saints draft room is run from what I have gathered