Hot take: Loomis will never fire Dennis Allen (26 Viewers)

[los226]

I really don’t see how you can bring him in for Year Four.
The fanbase has a different complexion post Brees/Payton.
They are vicious and angry at Allen.

Firing DA would bring a jolt to the fanbase and if Rattler shows improvement, may attract a quality coach.

Idk… but judging off of Loomis’ comments it feels like he thinks that the fans don’t know any better and that they don’t make decisions based on how we feel.

 

[Cgrob81]

Even if they win tomorrow, baring some miraculous winning streak, i don’t see how the organization can bring Allen back.

Exactly. How can people still hang they're hats on this one Broncos game bc of SP? We are still stuck with a coach who's entire career record has been "win one, lose one, win one, lose two". This coach has had his shots. It is beyond time to move on.

 

[Treybad]

We need someone like Brees to give Gayle a call.... time to look for a new GM/coach...

 

[Hedon James]

He might not fire him mid season, but I don’t think Loomis is so stubborn that he won’t move on after the season if the team continues to play poorly. I don’t know that mid season firings really work anyway, interim coaches aren’t normally featured in the playoffs, and you end the season in a lose lose situation if the interim coach sparks some life into the team.

Besides, the job is likely more attractive to new candidates if they think they won’t get fired on a whim during the season.

All valid points, and I tend to agree with you. But to be devil's advocate, I'd point out that mid-season firings and interim coaches not being in the playoffs is a function of the team playing too poorly to qualify for the post-season (which necessitated the firing). Teams like that don't go to the post season with their tenured coaches either.

But there is merit in not firing your coach, midseason, for the sake of making a move. Perhaps you'll have "removed the tumor", but nothing was "cured." While I tend to agree with the bolded part, i don't think that applies to a coach in his 3rd season (or 6th, depending on perspective) who typically finishes seasons anywhere from 4-12 to 7-10....with a single 9-8 finish on his resume. That's 4 out of 5 seasons, well on the way to 5 seasons out of 6...a demonstrated track record of losing. Frank Reich was fired by the Panthers owner in his 1st season...THAT is a whim. Doesn't apply to the Saints, in this instance, IMO. Matter of fact, I would argue that players have notoriously SHORT careers and those with a fire to WIN may not want to come to a franchise that's willing to "burn" losing seasons. Players in it for the extended paychecks may appreciate that, but not those with a burning fire to win. Who do you want to send that message to? The next coach, who will be here for 10+/- seasons if you do it right(!), or the players that you recruit EVERY OFF SEASON?! I'd much rather appeal to players with a burning desire to win, than a coach who appreciates job security. It's like that analogy about buying a car....if you're buying a Volvo for it's safety features and crash test ratings, I'm not sure you should be driving, and I sure as hell don't want to ride with you! JMO...

So let's assume the Saints are FORCED to make a move....the fans are storming the gates with flaming pitchforks (AGAIN! Doesn't that tell you something also?!) DA's staff is THIN on "solid" replacements for the Interim Coach tag. I don't want to see KK elevated....not yet. I have high hopes for him, but he was brought here to fix the offense. He hasn't really had the opportunity to do that yet, and I don't want his efforts diluted from that. Maybe talk to Gary Kubiak about the Interim position? It's my understanding he has been hovering in the background and whispering in his son's ear, or at least providing his son feedback on his thoughts regarding the Saints personnel and strategies. IF the elderly Kubiak is an option, that might be the best-case scenario.....take over as Interim while his son fixes the offense and grooms his son for the future HC position. Step down when KK is ready... Although that reeks of nepotism, which I suspect there is too much of in the Saints organization already.

I think you have to consider Darren Rizzi. He interviewed for the position when CSP left. Didn't get the HC position, but remained on staff. We know the Saints like that kind of loyalty. I don't know much else about Rizzi, other than he's a highly regarded ST coordinator in the league. What else is in his resume to suggest he MIGHT be a good HC? Looking around the league....ST isn't a common path to HC positions, but that was the path for one of the best HCs in the league....John Harbaugh. So while it isn't common, it's also not unprecedented.

Beyond that, the Saints staff is THIN on coaches with HC/Asst HC experience. Maybe add the OL coaches, Benton(?) and Dennison(?), but temper that with the Kubiak argument above. Having an OL coach as the HC, and boss over the OC, who is actually your boss, just isn't going to work. WHO else is there? I'm hard pressed to suggest ANYONE in house for the job.

So I guess MY preferences, in order, would be to lull Gary Kubiak out of retirement for the Interim position. If those results trend positive for the remaining 1/2 season, work out a time frame for the development of KK as OC and eventual succession as HC. Ink Gary for 1-2 more seasons, at which time he re-retires, and KK is elevated to HC. Not my favorite scenario.....but the best I can conjure up under the current circumstances.

If the Kubiak succession plan is a no-go, turn to Rizzi and give him his shot. Best case scenario, the team turns things around and the Saints have a tough decision on their hands end-of-season. Another Pierce/Raiders scenario....no matter which you decide, you're left with a "what if" question.

The only other viable option I see is to retain DA (keep chopping wood) for the remainder of the season, with the Kevin Costner Draft Day caveat to himself to "dismiss DA end of season...no matter what". DA may not be HC material, but he also may be the best candidate to finish the season, who is already in the organization/building. There's no GOOD options here. JMO...

 

[Double_e]

With all the excuses ML makes for DA, I would not be at all surprised (disappointed, but not surprised) if ML's next excuse is "We have to clean up the cap so DA can surround the team with better talent before we can really evaluate his performance" and God only knows how long that'll take.

 

[saintfan-n-alexla]

One issue there maybe is salary cap issues and getting a new coach with a good history

I doubt they fire DA mid season

If you know you’re going to make the change ( and I don’t see Loomis being fired) do you :

Keep talent you have and let new staff make personal decisions

Or

Make trades with players too old for a rebuild and trade them for picks this season I.e Latt and AK etc

 

[HouseCall]

I kind of expect after they lose to the Broncos, things will become so sour and heated around the city he might not have a choice.

I agree with this take.

They will have a mini-bye with the Thursday game. They lose tomorrow - there is no better opportunity to fire Allen to at least look like you are trying to salvage the season. If not after Thursday then your next opportunity is the actual bye and by then, you might as well just hang on to him and do it after the season.

 

[fishing4food]

Loomis always portrays himself as the smartest guy in the room. His hiring of DA was lazy on his part.

He may want to put the following coaches on speed dial for interviews:
Mike Vrabel
Ben Johnson
Bobby Slowik
Aaron Glenn

 

[DerrickB]

We need someone like Brees to give Gayle a call.... time to look for a new GM/coach...

Brees ain't about that life. Lol

 

[BoNcHiE]

He fired Carmichael when no one thought he would.

I think Allen is gone at this point unless we have a miraculous turnaround. There are too many good candidates on the market in 2025 to not pull the trigger after a bad season.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

He fired Carmichael when no one thought he would.

I think Allen is gone at this point unless we have a miraculous turnaround. There are too many good candidates on the market in 2025 to not pull the trigger after a bad season.

He’ll absolutely fire him, but not for the petty offenses most fans want him fired for.

Still think barring a total collapse he gets a 4th season.

 

[St. Widge]

To do so, he would be admitting to his failure, and he strikes me as the kind of ego that can never admit failure.

If DA get canned after the season, it will come from the top.

I really don't know where all this stuff came from about Loomis having this giant ego and refusing to admit failure. A few people made the claim now it is an accepted narrative. It's am amazing object lesson in gaslighting.

 

[St. Widge]

He’ll absolutely fire him, but not for the petty offenses most fans want him fired for.

Still think barring a total collapse he gets a 4th season.

I agree that if DA can turn this around and get to 9 wins he's unfortunately getting another year because that would take the team getting really hot at some point and going on a streak of wins. But I think if it's 7 or 8 wins he likely loses his job because it will be seen as regression. At 6 wins or below, I think he's gone.

Unfortunately, I think we are headed for a 5 or 6 win season. Especially if they lose to the Broncos.

And I'm not one who hates DA or makes it personal, but it's his 3rd year and he has the staff, QB, and roster that he asked for. If it's not going to work this year, then I don't see how it works in year 4 with Demario, Tyrann, and AK a year older and Cam either retired or even more of a role player. I get that there are injuries, but DA had 3 years to prepare for that and we appear to be thinner than we were 3 years ago and at some point a HC either needs to figure out how to avoid injuries or figure out how to win despite them.

I think it's pretty common in the NFL for a HC to get 3 years to prove he is the right choice and then for teams to move on.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I agree that if DA can turn this around and get to 9 wins he's unfortunately getting another year because that would take the team getting really hot at some point and going on a streak of wins. But I think if it's 7 or 8 wins he likely loses his job because it will be seen as regression. At 6 wins or below, I think he's gone.

Unfortunately, I think we are headed for a 5 or 6 win season. Especially if they lose to the Broncos.

And I'm not one who hates DA or makes it personal, but it's his 3rd year and he has the staff, QB, and roster that he asked for. If it's not going to work this year, then I don't see how it works in year 4 with Demario, Tyrann, and AK a year older and Cam either retired or even more of a role player. I get that there are injuries, but DA had 3 years to prepare for that and we appear to be thinner than we were 3 years ago and at some point a HC either needs to figure out how to avoid injuries or figure out how to win despite them.

I think it's pretty common in the NFL for a HC to get 3 years to prove he is the right choice and then for teams to move on.

Accurate and yet the biggest determination of a coach keeping his job is the patience of the GM. The 3-4 year thing is standard but it's obvious that Loomis and Co don't work in a standard way all the way down to the salary cap. I detect Loomis has an unwavering belief in DA, at least for now and w/ the rash of injuries among other things, he's been provided w/ a built in excuse on why the team is currently underperforming.

 

[Saint Jack]

I agree that if DA can turn this around and get to 9 wins he's unfortunately getting another year because that would take the team getting really hot at some point and going on a streak of wins. But I think if it's 7 or 8 wins he likely loses his job because it will be seen as regression. At 6 wins or below, I think he's gone.

Unfortunately, I think we are headed for a 5 or 6 win season. Especially if they lose to the Broncos.

And I'm not one who hates DA or makes it personal, but it's his 3rd year and he has the staff, QB, and roster that he asked for. If it's not going to work this year, then I don't see how it works in year 4 with Demario, Tyrann, and AK a year older and Cam either retired or even more of a role player. I get that there are injuries, but DA had 3 years to prepare for that and we appear to be thinner than we were 3 years ago and at some point a HC either needs to figure out how to avoid injuries or figure out how to win despite them.

I think it's pretty common in the NFL for a HC to get 3 years to prove he is the right choice and then for teams to move on.

I’ve always considered three years is equal to one term.