How many years did keeping Allen and signing Carr set back the team? (2 Viewers)

[Judge_Smails]

We are one of 20 or more teams in the same boat
Just do not have a good enough quarterback to be really competitive

In a general sense, yeah, but there are some pretty big bits to pick at, besides that.

 

[DSnfla]

I agree with you, me defending Carr on some particulars are in no way saying he deserves a pass.

He is not handling his emotions well, he is missing easy throws or not making them at all, he is not seeing the field well, and once the field shrinks (red zone) he has been really bad at seeing the small windows that require super quick decision making.

The issue I have is Carr came here and got worse. Some people saying, well, this is who Carr is. No he isn't, no he hasn't been. He has always had red zone issues, but he has never consistently looked like a bottom tier QB. Now, if you take a mid level player and he comes to a more talented team, and suddenly that player becomes worse, you have to look at coaching first. We all know and can see Carr is an incredibly passionate player and MT has told us that he works he butt off. So, while Carr deserves some blame, the fact that he is playing far worse than normal with more talent around leads me to believe what we saw last year is accurate. Dennis Allen rarely will ever have the right answers for the offensive side of the ball and Pete Carmichael doesn't seem to be able to truly game plan, he definitely struggles with in game adjustments, and he vastly struggles with any type of corrections from week to week

I submit that DC's regression is due to a few things. 1, Poor Poor OL play I think he has no confidence to stand in the pocket and make the 2.3.4th reads it takes sometimes. Avg 2,5 secs and running for your life does not make you comfortable. We are 27th in rushing so that offers no help
DA and PC are NOT strong coaches , DA especially because he really doesn't not hold anyone accountable and is crap as a motivator. PC has been called a genius but that is in play design and not as a communicator and has a very wallflower demeanor. Change the HC to a strong willed offensive-minded HC that will be his own OC get a new OL coach someone like Stoutland from the Eagles. And watch the turnaround

 

[faceman]

I submit that DC's regression is due to a few things. 1, Poor Poor OL play I think he has no confidence to stand in the pocket and make the 2.3.4th reads it takes sometimes. Avg 2,5 secs and running for your life does not make you comfortable. We are 27th in rushing so that offers no help
DA and PC are NOT strong coaches , DA especially because he really doesn't not hold anyone accountable and is crap as a motivator. PC has been called a genius but that is in play design and not as a communicator and has a very wallflower demeanor. Change the HC to a strong willed offensive-minded HC that will be his own OC get a new OL coach someone like Stoutland from the Eagles. And watch the turnaround

I believe the NFL still prohibits lateral coaching moves. Stoutland would have to be promoted to OC.

 

[mdharper]

Two.

 

[RiverRat]

I’d take DA and Carr over a 14 year old making YouTube content style of a rebuild 100 out of 10 times.

 

[ravenblade23x]

I’d take DA and Carr over a 14 year old making YouTube content style of a rebuild 100 out of 10 times.

This is a horrible take 100 our of 10 times. Regardless of what some of you want this team is going to have to do a rebuild. DA is not the long term coach and will get fired. We will be a mediocre team until that happens and every year we postpone the rebuild it sets the team back even more.

Everyone like to bring up all that time that tanking/rebuilds are not a guarantee of success, but no one that want's a fresh start has ever said it was. Nothing in the NFL is a guaranteed, but we had info on Allen and Carr, Allen was not a good HC with the Raiders and already had one poor season with the Saints, Carr is 30+ year old QB that has shown glimpse of good play but is not consistent. It boggles the mind that people will roll the dice on something that has never been proven to be good.

 

[TalleyHo1]

The "Patriot way" was to accumulate as many draft picks as possible. Their way was also letting expensive
veterans enter FA,so they could get more compensatory picks. We've been the exact opposite of the
Patriot way.

Not in the early going they weren't. They talked about it and talked about it.....it was referencing the ability to draft well, coach em up and let the overpriced vets leave. Once they started winning consistently and won the Super Bowl, then it became the "we know more and better than you" so we will take chances on these players HOPING they would get lucky and get the next great dominating player. The Patriots were very successful with that ploy.

 

[RiverRat]

This is a horrible take 100 our of 10 times. Regardless of what some of you want this team is going to have to do a rebuild. DA is not the long term coach and will get fired. We will be a mediocre team until that happens and every year we postpone the rebuild it sets the team back even more.

Everyone like to bring up all that time that tanking/rebuilds are not a guarantee of success, but no one that want's a fresh start has ever said it was. Nothing in the NFL is a guaranteed, but we had info on Allen and Carr, Allen was not a good HC with the Raiders and already had one poor season with the Saints, Carr is 30+ year old QB that has shown glimpse of good play but is not consistent. It boggles the mind that people will roll the dice on something that has never been proven to be good.

DA doesn’t have to be the long term solution. You build a club to win as much as possible in the current year. Because nothing is guaranteed years down the line. There is no point in voluntarily being non-competitive for 5 Years while you hope and pray that your endless draft high picks work out. Cleveland and Jacksonville have been caught in this loop for generations. Cincinnati was there before Burrow and might be right back there soon. I’m frustrated with the team, but I’d rather be 3-4 with the division still up for grabs than be 1-6 saying “in 3 years we’re going to be good.”

 

[sfidc3]

Not in the early going they weren't. They talked about it and talked about it.....it was referencing the ability to draft well, coach em up and let the overpriced vets leave. Once they started winning consistently and won the Super Bowl, then it became the "we know more and better than you" so we will take chances on these players HOPING they would get lucky and get the next great dominating player. The Patriots were very successful with that ploy.

The early going? They won their first SB in 2001.....it was the Patriot way pretty much from that point forward....you have no idea what you're talking about....Face is spot on....

And it wasn't a ploy, for years they had the best scout staff in the NFL....

 

[ravenblade23x]

DA doesn’t have to be the long term solution. You build a club to win as much as possible in the current year. Because nothing is guaranteed years down the line. There is no point in voluntarily being non-competitive for 5 Years while you hope and pray that your endless draft high picks work out. Cleveland and Jacksonville have been caught in this loop for generations. Cincinnati was there before Burrow and might be right back there soon. I’m frustrated with the team, but I’d rather be 3-4 with the division still up for grabs than be 1-6 saying “in 3 years we’re going to be good.”

Yeah but keeping DA keeps us from reaching that long-term solution. Paying a below average QB a massive contract keeps us from reaching that long term solution. There is equally no point in trying to keep a band aid on a aging team and going 7-10 every year. Your trading being bad for being mediocre. Being stuck in mediocrity is worse because at least if your bad you get a stab at a top pick.

The point I am trying to make that most people just can't see is that route you want to take has just as much chance at failure and can likely hurt the team more long term. Your sacrificing the teams future to maybe win a bad divison and go one and done in the playoffs.

The Panthers just tried to do exatly what your suggesting. They brought in Bridgewater in 2020, Darnold in 21 and Mayfield in 22. After three years of the band aid approach was finally forced to rip it off and start fresh. Yeah the Panthers suck this year and Bryce Young maybe a bust because nothing is guaranteed.

Its's a 100% fact that this team has to start a rebuild in the next 1-2 years. We have many aging veterans and not enough draft capital to replace them all. Dennis Allen is not the long term future and neither is Carr. The longer we wait the more years we waste, the sooner we rip the band aid off the more chances we get a getting lucky in the draft.

 

[RiverRat]

Yeah but keeping DA keeps us from reaching that long-term solution. Paying a below average QB a massive contract keeps us from reaching that long term solution. There is equally no point in trying to keep a band aid on a aging team and going 7-10 every year. Your trading being bad for being mediocre. Being stuck in mediocrity is worse because at least if your bad you get a stab at a top pick.

The point I am trying to make that most people just can't see is that route you want to take has just as much chance at failure and can likely hurt the team more long term. Your sacrificing the teams future to maybe win a bad divison and go one and done in the playoffs.

The Panthers just tried to do exatly what your suggesting. They brought in Bridgewater in 2020, Darnold in 21 and Mayfield in 22. After three years of the band aid approach was finally forced to rip it off and start fresh. Yeah the Panthers suck this year and Bryce Young maybe a bust because nothing is guaranteed.

Its's a 100% fact that this team has to start a rebuild in the next 1-2 years. We have many aging veterans and not enough draft capital to replace them all. Dennis Allen is not the long term future and neither is Carr. The longer we wait the more years we waste, the sooner we rip the band aid off the more chances we get a getting lucky in the draft.

You have every offseason to realistically fix as many of those problems as you can. If our roster was producing to their potential we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. And changing a coach takes 1 off-season rather than a minimum of 5. “Blowing it up” guarantees multiple years of trying to keep a ship from sinking. By the time you have a complete roster, you’re back where you’re started. The players you drafted in year 1 are 5 years in. They’re aging. Most of them probably aren’t even hits, but let’s pretend they are. You can’t keep them all. Do you rebuild again?

 

[mdharper]

How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop?

 

[IceHot]

This is a horrible take 100 our of 10 times. Regardless of what some of you want this team is going to have to do a rebuild. DA is not the long term coach and will get fired. We will be a mediocre team until that happens and every year we postpone the rebuild it sets the team back even more.

Everyone like to bring up all that time that tanking/rebuilds are not a guarantee of success, but no one that want's a fresh start has ever said it was. Nothing in the NFL is a guaranteed, but we had info on Allen and Carr, Allen was not a good HC with the Raiders and already had one poor season with the Saints, Carr is 30+ year old QB that has shown glimpse of good play but is not consistent. It boggles the mind that people will roll the dice on something that has never been proven to be good.

Im not sure you have the model of success right...

• Before Mahomes Andy Reid brought in old an aged Alex Smith...they got Mahomes because they had an opportunity to do so not because they set out to get him.
• Between those runs the Rams and Bucs won with rather aged hired Gun QBs
• The 2017 Eagles QB wasnt exactly the guy and the composition of the teams core starters is about 43% Hired Guns including Malcolm Jenkins
• Broncos hired aged Manning to finish the deal

As for Coaches other than Andy Reid which championship coach are you saying was a genius before he got there?

• McVey
• Bruce Arians
• Bill
• Doug Pederson
• Kubiak
• The Other Pete C

The road to a championship is composed of many things...

• Stringing together well developed Homegrown talent
• Hitting the jackpot early on a key player or two
• Getting Lucky with a coach
• And Hiring plenty of Veteran Guns to finish the deal
• And sticking with it until victory comes your way

As long as we dont go out an hire an Astronaut to coach or team or ask the Rams to do our scouting report for us I believe we have a chance.

 

[TalleyHo1]

The early going? They won their first SB in 2001.....it was the Patriot way pretty much from that point forward....you have no idea what you're talking about....Face is spot on....

And it wasn't a ploy, for years they had the best scout staff in the NFL....

I'm talking about the Saints!! They mentioned the Patriots and the Patriots Way numerous times over the years as their inspiration. I darn sure do know what I'm talking about. Apparently you don't!

 

[sfidc3]

I'm talking about the Saints!! They mentioned the Patriots and the Patriots Way numerous times over the years as their inspiration. I darn sure do know what I'm talking about. Apparently you don't!

So mister communication expert, here is you in your own words.....

Once they started winning consistently and won the Super Bowl, then it became the "we know more and better than you" so we will take chances on these players HOPING they would get lucky and get the next great dominating player. The Patriots were very successful with that ploy.

No mention of the Saints above, just the last line about the Patriots, how in the world am I supposed to infer that you are talking about the Saints here?