I dont get the BPA (2 Viewers)

[SaintSausagehead]

Thanks guy yall all make very good points i just see things like what happened in green bay they have a hihg pick that will probably be a FA. before Farve turns over the job to him that was a wasted pick for them they have been needing a WR never really drafted a big name instead they got a QB still holding a clip board they did the same with Matt that is in seattle now.

 

[St. Widge]

Thanks guy yall all make very good points i just see things like what happened in green bay they have a hihg pick that will probably be a FA. before Farve turns over the job to him that was a wasted pick for them they have been needing a WR never really drafted a big name instead they got a QB still holding a clip board they did the same with Matt that is in seattle now.

QB tends to be a special situation. Because of the importance of the position they are almost always overrated and go higher than their draft grade would suggest. Teams reach all the time for QB's because it is such a need position in the NFL. The other unique thing about QB is that it's a position where barring injury, only one guy plays. Basically at every other position, especially WR, RB, CB you can find a way to work a guy in even if you are loaded at the position. On the other hand, it's hard to find a way to get a QB to contribute if you have a good player ahead of him.

 

[REALCHRISM]

That really depends on how our personnel people rank these two players. They might rank Ellis above McFadden or they might rank them close. If they are close, then it probably makes sense to take a guy at the "need" position, but if they rank McFadden way above Ellis, you have to take McFadden. What good would it do to draft a player at a position of need if he doesn't end up being a good player? See, i.e Johnathan Sullivan.

Exactly.

 

[mony_b22]

In the colston comment, the issue wasn't with colston as a good player stand point, the issue was teams saw him as a TE his college position and that was how he was graded. He was a developmental player due to weight issues. If u look at his combine numbers he was in the top 5 in all major categories. Best player available is due the point system. Now different teams have different rating where a player is graded. Alot of teams don't go against the grain when it comes to reaching on picks on the first day cause these picks are suppose to be "immediate franchise impactors." As u have seen just think about it we gave up 2 first rd's for Sullivan a good player with MAJOR question marks. Now reflect on Sullivan . Who was he playing with at Georgia. IF u didn't know his starting D-line was C.Grant, Marcus Stroud J. Sullivan, Richard Seymour. Looks like his production was due to talent around him. EVERY other dt in the first rd has been a contributor and most of them pro bowlers. The saints still haven't recovered from that draft debacle. That is the point on BPA.

 

[AARPSaint]

This is a really great thread, with a LOT of good observations. I think that cornerback and quarterback have very steep learning curves. Therefore, teams like Green Bay and New Orleans can afford using a high pick on a QB to groom for the future. That's what GB tried to do, but it backfired because Favre continued to play at a very high level. The Saints' situation differs in that the backup QB is older, so they should continue to look for a future starter, who could be Tyler Palko, I'm not convinced that Palko is the long-term answer but could be wrong.

Cornerback is different. These days, you need two legitimate starters. With McKenzie's injury, the Saints currently have ZERO legitimate CB starters IMHO. Rookie CB's get picked on unmercifully. Therefore, the Saints need to go after at least one if not two CB in free agency. A lot depends on Usama Young, who may be called on to start next year. Do you take the BPA in the draft if the BPA is a CB? IMHO it depends on which round. Round 1 CB's are a risk because they usually don't produce in the first year except touchdown passes by the opposition.

The Saints' situation is complex. The defense is pretty awful and needs help at DT, LB, and CB. Yet, it may be that a safety might be their best defensive option in the first round. I would take the safety. If the BPA ar Round 10 is a terrific offensive player, I wouldn't exclude the possibility.

 

[tim martin]

nevmeister ginn might look like a reach but he will end up being a good player in this league...he showed good signs this year

 

[RockyMtnSaint]

That really depends on how our personnel people rank these two players. They might rank Ellis above McFadden or they might rank them close. If they are close, then it probably makes sense to take a guy at the "need" position, but if they rank McFadden way above Ellis, you have to take McFadden. What good would it do to draft a player at a position of need if he doesn't end up being a good player? See, i.e Johnathan Sullivan.

When the scouts, coaches and FO types all stack the draft board, they should take need into account. So a better overall player at a position of less need might grade out close to a lesser player at a position of more need. When it's close, I think you have to go with best overall talent. The reason is that the need may be only for one year but that player is going to play for your team probably 4 or 5 years at least. You can't let short-term needs override your long-term goals for your team.

 

[BoNcHiE]

You guys should just pray that these defensive players have amazing combine performances, because you can bet we are going to take the BPA.

 

[St. Widge]

When the scouts, coaches and FO types all stack the draft board, they should take need into account. So a better overall player at a position of less need might grade out close to a lesser player at a position of more need. When it's close, I think you have to go with best overall talent. The reason is that the need may be only for one year but that player is going to play for your team probably 4 or 5 years at least. You can't let short-term needs override your long-term goals for your team.

I agree with the second part. But, I think scouts have to just rank on talent alone. It is the HC/GM's job to decide how need moves the player rankings for them. They need the raw data on who is the better player and then they can process the data.


I'm just saying that if the grades are really close and the very slightly lower grade is to the position of need, I might take the need position. If they are really close in talent/grade then they will likely have similar success, but success at one position might be more important than success at another position. For instance, if you have a QB and a DT rated only slightly differently with the QB only slightly higher in grade and no players rated between them, a team like the Saints should probably take the DT. A DT would start right away, where as a QB would prbably have to wait 5 or more years before Brees retires/leaves.

Overall, you have to take BPA as a philosophy, but when it comes very close, I think need can be a consideration. But, you obviously have to look at the long term needs of your team. In the DT/QB example above, a DT makes sense both long term (all our DT's are old) and in the short term.

 

[Ti Rider]

Let me put like this -

BPA has yielded players like - Deuce McAllister, Reggie Bush, Will Smith, Jammal Brown

Drafting to fill a need has yielded players like - Jonathan Sullivan, Alex Molden, Vaughn Dunbar

You tell me which method is best........

 

[SaintSausagehead]

Let me put like this -

BPA has yielded players like - Deuce McAllister, Reggie Bush, Will Smith, Jammal Brown

Drafting to fill a need has yielded players like - Jonathan Sullivan, Alex Molden, Vaughn Dunbar

You tell me which method is best........[/QUO well when you put it like that BPA wins hands down great info by all of you guys.

 

[thundergod1966]

Let me put like this -

BPA has yielded players like - Deuce McAllister, Reggie Bush, Will Smith, Jammal Brown

Drafting to fill a need has yielded players like - Jonathan Sullivan, Alex Molden, Vaughn Dunbar

You tell me which method is best........

Yea ok,...Alex Molden was taken by the Saints before Walt Harris, Eddie George, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, Ray Lewis, Amani Toomer, Lawyer Milloy, Muhsin Muhammad, Fred Thomas, Randall Godfrey,Tedy Bruschi,...on & on! There was no way that was a need pick. There was to much talent in that draft they had Molden as the BPA without a doubt, they could not have been that ignorant. Sullivan was rated high by everyone, the Saints just played the jester to jump up & select him. The Saints had him rated above Marcus Trufant, Troy Polamalu,Larry Johnson, Dallas Clark on & on. Thats a very poor reference to drafting BPA. What the Saints problem is is poor talent evaluation.

 

[St. Widge]

Yea ok,...Alex Molden was taken by the Saints before Walt Harris, Eddie George, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, Ray Lewis, Amani Toomer, Lawyer Milloy, Muhsin Muhammad, Fred Thomas, Randall Godfrey,Tedy Bruschi,...on & on! There was no way that was a need pick. There was to much talent in that draft they had Molden as the BPA without a doubt, they could not have been that ignorant. Sullivan was rated high by everyone, the Saints just played the jester to jump up & select him. The Saints had him rated above Marcus Trufant, Troy Polamalu,Larry Johnson, Dallas Clark on & on. Thats a very poor reference to drafting BPA. What the Saints problem is is poor talent evaluation.

My recollection was that Molden was taken because J.L. Mora was in love with him and we needed a CB. The scouts did not like him nearly as much. He was a need pick.

As far as Sullivan is concerned, there was lots of talk that he would be available around pick #15. And some discussion that was too high for him. In the end, not only was Sullivan a need pick and a reach, but that was compounded by the fact that we traded a lot of picks to move up to reach for a guy at a need position. Added to that is the fact that we had to pay him top 10 money.

 

[thundergod1966]

Last year the Saints drafted an injured Robert Meachem! They drafted in their own feeble minds the BPA. Hogwash!,............I am personally scared of this next draft for the Saints. They got lucky with Colston & Evans the last couple years but they need to focus on the top part of the draft & do a lot better job IMO. Its time to quit being cute, (Ala the trade up to draft that other RB) and focus on finding some defensive talent.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

You use the draft to add the most talented players available coming out of College to your roster.

You use the FA period to fill "needs".


IMO, BPA is the only way to draft successfully. I think the FO failed us in FA last year, not the draft.