I dont get the BPA (1 Viewer)

[Superfan]

with the 10th pick you don't have as much risk. if you have a choice to get best LB or best RB. i take LB. it isnt going to be 3rd best rb and 6th best DT when we pick. it will be the best on the board.

 

[Ti Rider]

Yea ok,...Alex Molden was taken by the Saints before Walt Harris, Eddie George, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, Ray Lewis, Amani Toomer, Lawyer Milloy, Muhsin Muhammad, Fred Thomas, Randall Godfrey,Tedy Bruschi,...on & on! There was no way that was a need pick. There was to much talent in that draft they had Molden as the BPA without a doubt, they could not have been that ignorant. Sullivan was rated high by everyone, the Saints just played the jester to jump up & select him. The Saints had him rated above Marcus Trufant, Troy Polamalu,Larry Johnson, Dallas Clark on & on. Thats a very poor reference to drafting BPA. What the Saints problem is is poor talent evaluation.

Molden was certainly a pick for a need. To expand on what St. Widge said - Jim Mora was the Saints HC and his son, JL Mora, was secondary coach at the time. The Saints secondary had been horrible the previous season. So despite needing a RB the Saints passed on Eddie George and chose Alex Molden to give JL another player. It didn't work out very well.

Reaching to fill a need is one of the easiest ways to blow a draft pick.The other easiest way is just poor talent evaluation.......

 

[Danchrism]

Poor talent evaluation has been our problem for decades now.

(Somebody's gonna read that and mention 2006, and I'm gonna pre-respond, "Rule, meet exception.")

This year there are obviously several positions of need and there are several of non-need. If I recall correctly we have our full allotment of picks; I think we should try to address our weakest positions with highly ranked players, then go BPA once we've adequately filled those needs. Based on FA, that could be the second, third, or sixth round, but the way our team looks now, if picks 10/41/72 drop an RB, a DE, and a QB in our laps as "BPA," we shouldn't feel the need to take them on that premise alone -- unless you don't mind watching Simoneau miss tackles, David get beat deep, and Nesbit/Faine whiff blocks. Stacking your roster works well in the NBA, in the NFL I'm not so sure.

 

[Ti Rider]

Last year the Saints drafted an injured Robert Meachem! They drafted in their own feeble minds the BPA. Hogwash!,............I am personally scared of this next draft for the Saints. They got lucky with Colston & Evans the last couple years but they need to focus on the top part of the draft & do a lot better job IMO. Its time to quit being cute, (Ala the trade up to draft that other RB) and focus on finding some defensive talent.

The Saints were hardly alone in liking Meachem. NY Giants GM Jerry Reese was asked in a post draft interview on ESPN radio which player falling surprised him. The first guy he named? Robert Meachem, he said they had him at 10-15 on their board and the Saints were lucky to get him at 27. Now in hindsight that just sounds silly but immediately after the draft it made sense. It wasn't like Meachem was ever projected as a second day pick that the Saints made a massive reach for.

Believe it or not I actually agree with you on focusing on the Defense. Since Payton's been with the Saints the team's had 15 draft picks and they've spent a whooping 6 on defensive players. Those consisted of one second round (Roman Harper), a third (Usama Young), two 5th's (Rob Ninkovich, David Jones), a sixth (Josh Lay), and a seventh (Marvin Mitchell). And of those 6 picks only three are still with the team. Kind of hard to land young talent if you don't bring much in. Hopefully Payton resists the urge to spend a majority of picks on O players this draft.......

 

[brianw37]

This is a really great thread, with a LOT of good observations. I think that cornerback and quarterback have very steep learning curves. Therefore, teams like Green Bay and New Orleans can afford using a high pick on a QB to groom for the future. That's what GB tried to do, but it backfired because Favre continued to play at a very high level. The Saints' situation differs in that the backup QB is older, so they should continue to look for a future starter, who could be Tyler Palko, I'm not convinced that Palko is the long-term answer but could be wrong.

Cornerback is different. These days, you need two legitimate starters. With McKenzie's injury, the Saints currently have ZERO legitimate CB starters IMHO. Rookie CB's get picked on unmercifully. Therefore, the Saints need to go after at least one if not two CB in free agency. A lot depends on Usama Young, who may be called on to start next year. Do you take the BPA in the draft if the BPA is a CB? IMHO it depends on which round. Round 1 CB's are a risk because they usually don't produce in the first year except touchdown passes by the opposition.

The Saints' situation is complex. The defense is pretty awful and needs help at DT, LB, and CB. Yet, it may be that a safety might be their best defensive option in the first round. I would take the safety. If the BPA ar Round 10 is a terrific offensive player, I wouldn't exclude the possibility.

ok this is what troubles me about taking bpa, i think bpa should depend on a team to team basis. our defence is horrible, the secondary in particular. we have an ok rookie, a banged up starter and a bunch players thomas, craft, and david who wouldnt even crack most teams practice squads. if the best corner in the draft (mike jenkins) is there when we pick at ten and we dont select him i would be very upset. i know u shouldnt go after need early in the draft but nothing is ever for sure. i think it makes more FOOTBALL sense for OUR TEAM to take the best corner at the number ten spot. our safties are young, and i know some of you dont like josh bullocks but i think hes just out of position (he should be a ss) and as for the front seven yea we sure could use a dt, a mlb, and a rush end. but these guys are mostly gonna be role players, players that we could find later in the draft. i know this might sound crazy but thats the way the nfl is going. mlb is a VERY inportant peice of the 4/3 defence but think about it how much are they really on the field in todays leauge? espially when teams spread you out. last year teams didnt have to spread us out all they really had to do was find out where jd, or anyone else opposite of mm and take their chances. now dont get me wrong if we land asgomua, or trufant and that a very huge if and sed ellis is on the board then ill take sed. but other than that we have to gamble on the corner in the 1st. our own coach even said it him self "if you want good corners in this leauge u gotta draft them" unless wanna spend nate clements kind of money on a top flight corner in fa. we went the dl route 4 or 5 times in the past 10 years its time to get some secondary help. soon. ps i know rookie corners get picked on but at some point we gotta start picking them in the 1st round. i think now is our best shot.

 

[basilisk]

i used to be a bpa guy all the way (i guess i still sorta am) but the new atl gm, who was head of scouting for the pats, seemed to imply that the pats drafted need first (or at least system first)... i know the colts draft system first, but those teams have longstanding systems on O and D in place so their scouts look for the best players in needed areas who fit their systems ... maybe that's the way to go, once we actually settle on a system

 

[lsu31always]

i used to be a bpa guy all the way (i guess i still sorta am) but the new atl gm, who was head of scouting for the pats, seemed to imply that the pats drafted need first (or at least system first)... i know the colts draft system first, but those teams have longstanding systems on O and D in place so their scouts look for the best players in needed areas who fit their systems ... maybe that's the way to go, once we actually settle on a system

Which is why the Pats took Maroney when they had Dillon?

 

[Ti Rider]

i used to be a bpa guy all the way (i guess i still sorta am) but the new atl gm, who was head of scouting for the pats, seemed to imply that the pats drafted need first (or at least system first)... i know the colts draft system first, but those teams have longstanding systems on O and D in place so their scouts look for the best players in needed areas who fit their systems ... maybe that's the way to go, once we actually settle on a system

Yes, you have to bring in players that fit your system. You wouldn't want to bring in a smallish cover two corner if you play a majority of man coverage. And yes sometimes who's still on the board dictates the next move. Say Darren McFadden's still on the board at 10. There's no way with Deuce returning, Reggie, PT, and maybe even a re signed Stecker the Saints should take another RB, BPA or not. In this scenario the Saints would have to trade down.

In a perfect world the BPA fills a need or upgrades a marginal starter. Like Jammal Brown, his being drafted allowed the Saints to trade ancient Wayne Gandy. If I had to guess Brown had a similar grade to other guys on the Saints board but filled a need and fit what Sean Payton wanted to do. But there are times when you just have to bite the bullet and take a guy that doesn't fill an immediate need - like say a Deuce McAllister when you already have a Ricky Williams or a Will Smith when you already have Charles Grant and Darren Howard........

 

[XJRunner]

Which is why the Pats took Maroney when they had Dillon?

You could just as easily say the Maroney pick was for need.

Dillon had a lot of mileage. The Pats needed to get younger at RB.

They draft Maroney. A year later they release Dillon, who still remains unsigned.

 

[birdog]

Yea ok,...Alex Molden was taken by the Saints before Walt Harris, Eddie George, Marvin Harrison, Eric Moulds, Ray Lewis, Amani Toomer, Lawyer Milloy, Muhsin Muhammad, Fred Thomas, Randall Godfrey,Tedy Bruschi,...on & on! There was no way that was a need pick. There was to much talent in that draft they had Molden as the BPA without a doubt, they could not have been that ignorant. Sullivan was rated high by everyone, the Saints just played the jester to jump up & select him. The Saints had him rated above Marcus Trufant, Troy Polamalu,Larry Johnson, Dallas Clark on & on. Thats a very poor reference to drafting BPA. What the Saints problem is is poor talent evaluation.

Welcome to the club, thundergold! I've been saying this very same thing for a while now, and we're taking the wrong turn once again, I'm afraid! nevertheless, your posts deserve the 5 star treatment!

Of course you're right! The Saints have a bad talent evaluation unit! probably one of the worst in the league! Just take a look at the Saints draft history, and you'll see how horrible the past drafts went! Other than the 2006 draft, we had awful drafts in the past 10 years! http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3300&type=team As at the whole draft class/year, the Saints are lucky if they can retain the first rd choice. Last year was awful, cause the best player selected by the Saints was an undrafted rookie in PT! Terrible, if you ask me.....today we argue about BPA, or need.....in reality there isn't such a distinction with the Saints talent evaluators....Sullivan was selected at the #6 slot, exactly b/c our evaluators saw him as the BPA. After the draft, I distinctively remember when Loomis was asked if Sully was the best DT in the draft....and they said that after D Robertson, he was the best....better even than Kevin Williams. Need I say more??

Right now the derailleurs are working overtime to derail the Saints to have a good defense....the arguments are the usual ones...cost, and not fitting are just the 2 most common ones, and we see the debate shift from obtaining the good ones, to the more common "middle of the road" players, who are cheap.....but are they worth a damn?

 

[Danchrism]

If I had to guess Brown had a similar grade to other guys on the Saints board but filled a need and fit what Sean Payton wanted to do. But there are times when you just have to bite the bullet and take a guy that doesn't fill an immediate need - like say a Deuce McAllister when you already have a Ricky Williams or a Will Smith when you already have Charles Grant and Darren Howard........

Brown was a Haslett pick; let the "get rid of him, he's not a Payton player" fest begin.

 

[Treybad]

I hate how all the nfl guru scouts that are umemployed by nfl teams build all these mock drafts say this guy is a reach this guy isnt worthy of the number 10 pick in our case.I dont get it nobody knows for sure how good anyone will be Colston prime example if everyone knew what we know now would he be a reach in the 1st or 2rd round? I say draft what you know you need if its a miss its a miss doing nothing about it does not help either so take a shot.

If you have a player you just know is gonna be a NFL player no doubt, with no excess baggage, sometimes you gotta take that guy even though you dont need a player at that position.
Put yourself into a GM/Coaches position, you gonna draft a TE from Hofstra over a WR from the SEC/BIG-12/ACC ??? yea right.... Colston like Jerry Rice is one of those hidden talents....... those are just luck plain and simple.....

 

[Danchrism]

COLSTON PLAYED WR AT HOFSTRA

(sry that just annoys me)

I see what you're saying Trey, but like I've said before -- getting the best player then worrying about his playing time later works far better in the NBA than in the NFL. In the NBA, a team with three point guards, five small forwards, and four power forwards (Denver) can consistently be a playoff contender, whereas a team that continues to draft players at the same positions finds that it's not developing its entire team in the ultimate team sport.

It's why you get people wondering, "What if we got such-and-such linebacker, didn't trade up for such-and-such DT/RB, had picked any of players 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 instead of the 0 we got," etc.)

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Widge nailed it. Needs and strengths and weaknesses can change quickly in the NFL.

More important, you are trying to draft good players, and the best way to do that is to draft, within limits, the best player on your board because your personnel people have determined that there is a statistically higher chance of that pick being successful than any other pick you can make.

 

[GermanSaint]

Let me put like this -

BPA has yielded players like - Deuce McAllister, Reggie Bush, Will Smith, Jammal Brown

Drafting to fill a need has yielded players like - Jonathan Sullivan, Alex Molden, Vaughn Dunbar

You tell me which method is best........

reggie bush didnt turn out to be the impact-offense-turnaround player .... smith is very pitiful since he take the starterjob .... deuce is injured again and jammal brow wasnt bpa , he was a need AND we traded up for him.