I need some things explained to me... (1 Viewer)

[unome_brother]

I'm a semi-regular contributor to this board's conversations, but I'm a constant lurker. That is to say, my post count definitely does not attest to the amount of time I actually spend here. That said, I have noticed some trends and/or ideas that I do not agree with.

I am by no means someone who chooses one opinion and steadfastly stands by it. I can be swayed. And it could be that I'm just not seeing things the way some of you see them. So I'd like to discuss certain opinions and figure out why there are so many who believe the way they do.

1) Deuce is done and might as well get his highlight reel ready for free agency.

I'm just wondering where people have gotten the idea that Deuce McAllister's days as a Saint are now seemingly in the single digits. I've read interviews with Mickey Loomis and Sean Payton that both state that Deuce's rehab is going well, and he's in the Saints' plans for 2008. So why is it that so many are of the steadfast opinion that he will be cut post-haste?

Payton has not shown us a propensity to lie when asked straight up yes/no questions. Many seem to think that he will be cut before his March 15th roster bonus comes due. If the team holds true to what they've stated (and for the record, I think they will), will you change your mind and accept Deuce as a 2008 Saint? Or will you simply mark another date on the calendar for him to pack his bags and leave town?

2) Darren McFadden is the Saints' only option if he falls to #10.

Many of those who believe #1 are also in the camp that believes #2. My question is this: If Darren McFadden falls to #10, what makes you think Mickey Loomis won't spend the Saints' 10 minutes on the clock milking Jerry Jones for everything he's got? The Cowboys have stated that they want McFadden. If Jerry Jones wants something, we know he's not shy about going and getting it. Personally, I think the Cowboys will trade up much earlier than #10 to snag McFadden, but if they can't, I'm almost certain that the Saints will make a deal to move down and take at least one of the Cowboys' first rounders...maybe both or maybe one of their young stars to go with one of their picks.

3) Dominique Rogers Cromartie is the second coming of Deion Sanders.

Statement #1 and #2 I'm a little more opinionated on. Statement #3 I feel I can be more easily swayed. My thing is this. Most of the mock drafts I've seen have this guy going in the late first/early second round. Why are so many on this board so eager to draft him 10th - 10-15 spots higher than most projections? And why do so many like him so much more than the other defensive prospects out there? With the amount of support he gets on this board, it almost seems like members of his family joined up just to post on his behalf.


So that's it. Those are the opinions I've been struggling with in the past couple of weeks on this board. Anyone care to defend these statements or oppose them? I'm open to both sides.

man, this is a really good post 2nd stringer

#3 is probably because of his senior bowl and combine results. honestly i like him alot but looking at game tape i think Leodis McKelvin is the more NFL ready. i love McKelvin's smoothness in his back pedal and the way he breaks on the ball, but as far as turnovers and game changing plays, DRC will probably shine over him at this point

 

[Saint Droopy]

3) Dominique Rogers Cromartie is the second coming of Deion Sanders.

Statement #1 and #2 I'm a little more opinionated on. Statement #3 I feel I can be more easily swayed. My thing is this. Most of the mock drafts I've seen have this guy going in the late first/early second round. Why are so many on this board so eager to draft him 10th - 10-15 spots higher than most projections? And why do so many like him so much more than the other defensive prospects out there? With the amount of support he gets on this board, it almost seems like members of his family joined up just to post on his behalf.


So that's it. Those are the opinions I've been struggling with in the past couple of weeks on this board. Anyone care to defend these statements or oppose them? I'm open to both sides.

I really don't think its a case of "projections", and where players are "projected to go"... if YOUR player is available when its your pick then you take him. I don't think any team's FO really cares what McShay, or Kiper has to say about players because teams pay a ton of money for scouts, and the entire scouting department that they employ. Especially this staff... they take who they want regardless of what the player's projected slot is.

Case in point... who even knew that the Saints would take Roman Harper in round 2? He was "projected" somewhere in the 4th or 5th... same is the case with Jahri Evans... you can't go by what the "experts" say... if your player is on the board then you take him.

I'm not speaking for everybody.. its just my opinion.

 

[Professor]

Do the board a favor. Post more!

My sentiments exactly. This was a well-considered, intelligent post. The fact that I agree with the OP does not influence my view, either.

Some people on this forum seem to love change for its own sake, but the Deuce topic has been floating for some time now. It is difficult to come back from one torn ACL, much less now having one torn in each knee. That, coupled with the roster bonus (I wasn't aware of this, so I cannot comment much not knowing the amount), is indeed cause for concern.


I love the idea of trading down if McFadden is available at #10, but I doubt he will be.

I don't know enough about Cromartie to comment, but I would rather trade down to the mid-to-late first round with someone interested in McFadden to accomplish this. I don't think, from what little I've read, that he is worth the 10th pick in the draft.

 

[Richard]

After a post like this, 2nd Stringer, you definitely appear to be stating material. I will echo Andrus and agree that you need to post more.

#1 -- I think Deuce will restructure and stay a Saint. He has indicated a willingness to do what he had to do to stay on the team and he understands the realities of coming back from two ACL surgeries. I still think he can come back and perform well, but we will have to see. I have heard nothing from Loomis, Payton or Deuce that indicates that Deuce will be jettisoned. Now they may believe they need to bring in another back for insurance, but I will not be surprised if they stick with the players they have on the roster and monitor Deuce's progress.

#2 -- In the scenario that the staff doesn't think Deuce can come back with full health, I still don't see them picking a first round RB, but if they did, I don't think McFadden would be that guy. First, I believe he will be gone by #10, either to Oakland or someone trading up to get him. However, if he did fall and the Saints want a RB there (again, I doubt this), I believe Stewart or Mendenhall would be a better fit.

#3 -- I think the love for DRC is a combination of the pre-draft hype he has received, which may be deserved, and the Saints' traditional need to improve the secondary. Most here have expected the Saints to take a first round CB for years, so someone always gets a lot of love every year around draft time.

 

[Saint LesPaul]

2nd stringer... I couldn't agree with you more on the Deuce issue. Everything we have heard points to him being on the team this season and I haven't read that he has had any major setbacks with his rehab. Do I think he will be as effective as 2006? No. Not at all. But I do think he will be a Saint for the very reasons you indicated.

As for DRC... man I think we are just hoping to strike gold with that first round pick. I would not be too concerned with "draft projections" as there have been plenty of players who project as a top 15 pick and then suck. There have been just as many who went in round 2 or 3 and been studs. I like to think of Demeco Ryans. He was a second round pick for the Texans and DRoY. How many people would have though he was a reach if he was drafted in the top 15 picks? And how many of those same people would have drafted him in the top 15 after seeing him tear it up for a season? DRC is a freak-- ideal size and speed for the position. I can only hope if we draft him he turns out to be great value at #10, cuz he sure won't be there in the 2nd round. Just my .02.

Great post BTW.

 

[bergeaux]

I'm a Falcons fan, but I think I can answer your questions.
1. To recover from two serious knee injuries would be an immpressive feat. Add that to his large salery and the odds would appear to be against him. Never trust what a coach says!
2. Anyone who thinks the Saints should take McFadden doesn't understand football. Ignore them.
3. He is good, plus people have a tendency to over hype players they like.
Thats what I think anyway.

I just gained more respect for an Atlanta Falcons fan! Well there's a first for everything.

I agree with this assessment.

If Darren McFadden falls to #10, what makes you think Mickey Loomis won't spend the Saints' 10 minutes on the clock milking Jerry Jones for everything he's got?

As someone else posted... I sure hope this works out for us. That would be great. Even a second rounder and a replacement 4th rounder to trade with the first Dallas pick would be worth it. There's a lot of even talent at LB, DT and CB as far as I can tell and picking at 22 I don't think will hurt us all that bad.

This is ASSUMING that Gholston, Long, Ellis and Dorsey are all gone at 10. But I am beginning to think one of them might be available, in which case, I would rather us use the pick.

 

[meily]

I'm a semi-regular contributor to this board's conversations, but I'm a constant lurker. That is to say, my post count definitely does not attest to the amount of time I actually spend here. That said, I have noticed some trends and/or ideas that I do not agree with.

I am by no means someone who chooses one opinion and steadfastly stands by it. I can be swayed. And it could be that I'm just not seeing things the way some of you see them. So I'd like to discuss certain opinions and figure out why there are so many who believe the way they do.

1) Deuce is done and might as well get his highlight reel ready for free agency.

I'm just wondering where people have gotten the idea that Deuce McAllister's days as a Saint are now seemingly in the single digits. I've read interviews with Mickey Loomis and Sean Payton that both state that Deuce's rehab is going well, and he's in the Saints' plans for 2008. So why is it that so many are of the steadfast opinion that he will be cut post-haste?

Payton has not shown us a propensity to lie when asked straight up yes/no questions. Many seem to think that he will be cut before his March 15th roster bonus comes due. If the team holds true to what they've stated (and for the record, I think they will), will you change your mind and accept Deuce as a 2008 Saint? Or will you simply mark another date on the calendar for him to pack his bags and leave town?

2) Darren McFadden is the Saints' only option if he falls to #10.

Many of those who believe #1 are also in the camp that believes #2. My question is this: If Darren McFadden falls to #10, what makes you think Mickey Loomis won't spend the Saints' 10 minutes on the clock milking Jerry Jones for everything he's got? The Cowboys have stated that they want McFadden. If Jerry Jones wants something, we know he's not shy about going and getting it. Personally, I think the Cowboys will trade up much earlier than #10 to snag McFadden, but if they can't, I'm almost certain that the Saints will make a deal to move down and take at least one of the Cowboys' first rounders...maybe both or maybe one of their young stars to go with one of their picks.

3) Dominique Rogers Cromartie is the second coming of Deion Sanders.

Statement #1 and #2 I'm a little more opinionated on. Statement #3 I feel I can be more easily swayed. My thing is this. Most of the mock drafts I've seen have this guy going in the late first/early second round. Why are so many on this board so eager to draft him 10th - 10-15 spots higher than most projections? And why do so many like him so much more than the other defensive prospects out there? With the amount of support he gets on this board, it almost seems like members of his family joined up just to post on his behalf.


So that's it. Those are the opinions I've been struggling with in the past couple of weeks on this board. Anyone care to defend these statements or oppose them? I'm open to both sides.

Just like you, just about everybody on this board can be swayed.....there is a real possibility that Duece wont return and there is a real possibility that he will...we go back and forth on that...The McFadden deal, I don't understand, why would we wanna draft that guy? I think people on here who wants him, thinks he plays defense.....and the DRC thing, is basically us wanting to get a jump on one of the hottest CB prospects in years....his cousin being Antonio Cromartie and we know what that guy did this year...so it only bolds well for this kid...so we want him, but he will probably go early 2nd or late first, because there still is the level of competition thing that will prevent him from being a top pick.....but there are also those teams out there who don't care about the level of talent, they know they can make this kid a player and they will take a flyer on him....we just want to be one to the teams bold enough to do so....


Everybody on this board is wishy washy when it comes to the state of the Saints...alot of things some dont agree on they dont agree cause they dont want to see it happen, it doesnt mean they dont think its a possiblity, which makes people go back and forth on the topic and makes some people go from wanting Duece back, to realizes maybe this is the beginning of the end for him.....

 

['79 Saints]

2nd stringer, let me add that you should post more.

I agree with all your assessments. I think the Saitns FO is very aware of the PR blunder they will make by releasing McAllister now. Any residual honeymoon feelings left from the 2006 season will completely evaporate if McAllister is released and is picked up by an NFC South rival -which he probably would be.

I expect Deuce to pick up his March 15th bonus and for the two sides to renegotiate the deal afterwards.

I tend to agree with NFL network's draft analyst Mike Mayock regarding McFadden and his "dead legs" on contact. I think he is an outstanding player in space, but much like Bush, I think McFadden will have trouble breaking tackles in the NFL. A lot of the respect McFadden gets around here was based on what he did to LSU's defense this past season.

To be honest, I think if Reggie Bush would have had a chance to play against LSU when he was at USC, he would have had similar success. Hashmark placement and the overall speed of college football helps runners like Bush and McFadden break those runs to the outside.

McFadden is a special talent, but not what the Saints need right now. He's not an Adrian Peterson.

DRC's hype stems purely from the combine and Senior Bowl performances -like others have said. Add to the mix his last name and the glaring need for corner help, and it's pretty obvious that many want the best possible corner drafted by the Saints first.

 

[buzd]

With regards to Deuce - roster bonus or no, it's my understanding that cutting him now would result in an unacceptable cap hit. I could see him renegotiating post-bonus, but I don't see the Saints outright letting him go. I would also point out that his two knee injuries are to different knees (making each one repaired once) rather than rebuilding the same knee twice (which would make it much more risky). I think he will be a Saint for the foreseeable future (barring injury-related retirement).

Skipping the McFadden thing - totally agree with you.

DRC - echoing posters above, a player is never a reach if it's who you want. Projections don't mean much after the fact. Either a player pans out (great pick!!) or he doesn't (bust!!). If we had picked Colston in the 2nd, it would have been panned as a terrible reach, but look at him now. If the player you want is available, go get him.

 

[Archie_4_HOF]

1. Due to Duece's contract, I believe his departure is inevitable. his cap hit grows every year. After two blown out knees, it is highly unlikely that Deuce will ever be an every down back. If he is not an every down back then it is hard to justify the cap hit. I pray that Deuce returns healthy and makes a strong contribution but i don't see it.
2. This regime always selects the BPA. While I don't see McFadden sticking around, if he is there and we can't trade downI would select him. Everyone assumes trading down is so easy. If we can get the Cowboys two first round selections for #10, take it and run. That would be the best way to find three defensive starters without reaching for need.
3. I believe the fascination with DRC is the Cromartie part of his name and the impact that Antonio Cromartie has had on the Chargers. I don't know much about DRC but ACromartie played at Florida St. and DRC played at Tennesee St. That doesn't mean he isn't talented but it does give you little insight on where people see his talent level compared to ACromartie. He has become a darling here the same way many here were hot on Kenny Phillips for quite sometime. Personally i don't think there is a CB in the draft worth the #10 pick.

 

[Archie_4_HOF]

DRC - echoing posters above, a player is never a reach if it's who you want. Projections don't mean much after the fact. Either a player pans out (great pick!!) or he doesn't (bust!!). If we had picked Colston in the 2nd, it would have been panned as a terrible reach, but look at him now. If the player you want is available, go get him.

Mora really wanted Alex Molden. Do you think he was a reach?

 

[justdave]

I hope that if #2 comes to pass and McFadden is still available and Jerry still wants him I hope Mickey and Sean keep two words on their minds when doing the deal , "Steve Walsh."

 

[Dart]

I don't know much about DRC but ACromartie played at Florida St. and DRC played at Tennesee St. That doesn't mean he isn't talented but it does give you little insight on where people see his talent level compared to ACromartie.

As has already been pointed out several times on this board - Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie's choice (or lack thereof) of College had more to do with the fact that he went to four High Schools in four years, due to a series of events beyond his control.

So before anyone condemns this kid as a 'flash in the pan' from a small school, who won't be able to produce on the big stage, do a little research in why it was that he ended up at said school. Personally, I think he looks special. I don't care if he is related to Antonio Cromartie, Deion Sanders or Donald Duck for that matter... To me, this kid is looks like he could have a great career and at this stage, before any of them have played a down in the NFL, that's all we can say about any prospect in the draft.

 

[buzd]

Mora really wanted Alex Molden. Do you think he was a reach?

With 20/20 hindsight, of course. But had he been the "next Deion Sanders" (or the first Deion Sanders, as the case may be) we would be celebrating Mora's genius for that pick, now, wouldn't we?