Israel (now broader Mid East discussion) (4 Viewers)

[Formermember]

Agree, war is not pretty, but to say extermination or genocide is preposterous. Hamas can end this by releasing the remaining hostages but they are the terrorists that have murdered the innocents.

 

[Formermember]

That’s children that you’re calling Hamas.

Do you even realize what you’re saying?

Do you understand that Israeli and western propaganda brainwash people into excusing murder of children because they say “we have to defend ourselves”?

It’s absolute propaganda. It’s sad that so many eat it up without question.

we're the ones brainwashed? Now that's rich.

 

[Heathen Saint]

Agree, war is not pretty, but to say extermination or genocide is preposterous.

Oh? I’m curious as to why you seem so confident in this.

Why is what has happened since October 7th and what continues to happen now not a genocide? Not an extermination?

Hamas can end this by releasing the remaining hostages but they are the terrorists that have murdered the innocents.

This is all old news. It was a cover so that Israel could keep slaughtering people and razing the land in Gaza.

They’re now doing the same in Lebanon.

But sure, if you think that this is about hostages - go ahead. It’s the official position of Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader of the “world’s most moral army”.

 

[Heathen Saint]

we're the ones brainwashed? Now that's rich.

Yep. If you buy into the propaganda that Israel spins out, that’s being brainwashed. Did you know that Israel conducts proxy propaganda campaigns in America too?

When it’s repeated “but Hamas” when Israel slaughters 50x the number of civilians that Hamas did, it becomes something that needs to be called out for clear inconsistency.

 

[Heathen Saint]

Here’s an Israeli-American professor who is considered a world renowned expert on the subject of genocide (specifically the studies of the Holocaust) at Brown University speaking on the subject.

 

[Formermember]

Oh? I’m curious as to why you seem so confident in this.

Why is what has happened since October 7th and what continues to happen now not a genocide? Not an extermination?



This is all old news. It was a cover so that Israel could keep slaughtering people and razing the land in Gaza.

They’re now doing the same in Lebanon.

But sure, if you think that this is about hostages - go ahead. It’s the official position of Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader of the “world’s most moral army”.

What happened in Rwanda was genocide. Was the Nazis did during WW2 was genocide. What the Turks did to the Armenians in WW1 was genocide. All of these examples involved ethnic cleansing. This lie of genocide in Gaza was invented by Iran, swallowed by the left and media, to spread their propaganda.

What's incredible is that Hamas, Hezbollah, etc are taught from birth to hate Israel, the US, the West, Christians, etc. They have no freedom in their society; women are considered second class citizens. Most have no education. Yet, the "elite liberals" that supports Hamas are the very one those people hate. They would rather kill you than thank you. Yes, it is old news yet you are part of their propaganda. Hamas is the one that built tunnels under hospitals, schools, clinics, etc. They are using women and children as human shields. Hamas and their ilk are the worse of the worst; hopefully, educators here will wake up soon.
Additionally, I never said this was about hostages. What I said was if Hamas would like to stop the war, they will have to release the hostages. Will this end the hostilities, of course not-don't be so obtuse. Also, the bit about razing the land? It's full of war tunnels man!

 

[Formermember]

Here’s an Israeli-American professor who is considered a world renowned expert on the subject of genocide (specifically the studies of the Holocaust) at Brown University speaking on the subject.

Agree with a lot of what he says; disagree on some but that's ok. It's important to look at all sides and not just quote the most liberal like Haaretz news with less than 5% acceptance. Look also at Hayom and Yedioth.

 

[jboss]

Agree, war is not pretty, but to say extermination or genocide is preposterous. Hamas can end this by releasing the remaining hostages but they are the terrorists that have murdered the innocents.

Israel has rejected many hostage deals negotiated by many different sources. To think it's as easy as that is preposterous. And if we're calling out terrorists for murdering innocents, why not call it all out?

 

[Heathen Saint]

What's incredible is that Hamas, Hezbollah, etc are taught from birth to hate Israel, the US, the West, Christians, etc.

No one here is making an excuse for these groups.

Yet it is incredible that Israelis too are taught to hate and harm Arabic, Muslim people and look on them as though they are subhuman.

This is a fact. Look at how they treat those in Gaza. In the West Bank. Look at how Israel has one justice system for Israelis and a different one for Palestinians. I encourage you to look further into this - it's likely more shocking than you think.

They have no freedom in their society; women are considered second class citizens. Most have no education.

What are you getting at?

Yet, the "elite liberals" that supports Hamas are the very one those people hate.

What "elite liberals" support Hamas? And how?

I don't find any of this really believable. In fact - many liberals / liberal media outlets are very pro-Israel.

They would rather kill you than thank you. Yes, it is old news yet you are part of their propaganda. Hamas is the one that built tunnels under hospitals, schools, clinics, etc. They are using women and children as human shields. Hamas and their ilk are the worse of the worst; hopefully, educators here will wake up soon.

One would think that if people actually cared about these "human shields", they'd care about them when Israel was purposefully targeting them. They'd actually speak out, right?

You know, over the last 12 months as Israel has been sniping children and toddlers in the head. Raping and assaulting people after arresting them unjustly simply for looking like a Palestinian. Executing them and burying them with backhoes. Slaughtering tens of thousands. Children literally hanging in half off of buildings...

Apparently, it's just "too bad" if Israel slaughters them. They don't raise an eyebrow. But folks seem to care about this "human shields" thing when Hamas is involved. They seem to get really worked up and repeat this a lot...

Surely you see that something with this story isn't quite right...

Additionally, I never said this was about hostages. What I said was if Hamas would like to stop the war, they will have to release the hostages.

And how many times has Israel rejected a hostage deal?

Surprise - they continue to reject these deals. Israel doesn't care about the hostages. They care about colonizing the land and wiping the land clean of people they view as subhuman. Ethnic cleansing.

Will this end the hostilities, of course not-don't be so obtuse. Also, the bit about razing the land? It's full of war tunnels man!

The propaganda / claims of one group should never be justifiable to excuse the mass slaughter of another:

50,000+ people killed?:
"But Hamas is using them as human shields!!"

Leveling the land? Domicide?
"There are tunnels under there! Hamas tunnels! They have to get rid of them!"

Acts like this should never be normalized. What Israel through the help of the west is doing IS normalizing it.

What happened in Rwanda was genocide. Was the Nazis did during WW2 was genocide. What the Turks did to the Armenians in WW1 was genocide. All of these examples involved ethnic cleansing. This lie of genocide in Gaza was invented by Iran, swallowed by the left and media, to spread their propaganda.

If you look at both the definitions of ethnic cleansing and of genocide - they absolutely both fit in the instance of what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza.

 

[Formermember]

Israel has rejected many hostage deals negotiated by many different sources. To think it's as easy as that is preposterous. And if we're calling out terrorists for murdering innocents, why not call it all out?

Hamas has to release them Not Israel. Yep, they're all bad- Hamas, hezbollah, al Qaeda, Boko Haram, Taliban, etc. All bad hombres

 

[Heathen Saint]

Hamas has to release them Not Israel.

Well I'm not sure how that makes any sense.

Why would one side not have to play by the rules?

 

[Formermember]

No one here is making an excuse for these groups.

Yet it is incredible that Israelis too are taught to hate and harm Arabic, Muslim people and look on them as though they are subhuman.

This is a fact. Look at how they treat those in Gaza. In the West Bank. Look at how Israel has one justice system for Israelis and a different one for Palestinians. I encourage you to look further into this - it's likely more shocking than you think.



What are you getting at?



What "elite liberals" support Hamas? And how?

I don't find any of this really believable. In fact - many liberals / liberal media outlets are very pro-Israel.



One would think that if people actually cared about these "human shields", they'd care about them when Israel was purposefully targeting them. They'd actually speak out, right?

You know, over the last 12 months as Israel has been sniping children and toddlers in the head. Raping and assaulting people after arresting them unjustly simply for looking like a Palestinian. Executing them and burying them with backhoes. Slaughtering tens of thousands. Children literally hanging in half off of buildings...

Apparently, it's just "too bad" if Israel slaughters them. They don't raise an eyebrow. But folks seem to care about this "human shields" thing when Hamas is involved. They seem to get really worked up and repeat this a lot...

Surely you see that something with this story isn't quite right...



And how many times has Israel rejected a hostage deal?

Surprise - they continue to reject these deals. Israel doesn't care about the hostages. They care about colonizing the land and wiping the land clean of people they view as subhuman. Ethnic cleansing.



The propaganda / claims of one group should never be justifiable to excuse the mass slaughter of another:

50,000+ people killed?:
"But Hamas is using them as human shields!!"

Leveling the land? Domicide?
"There are tunnels under there! Hamas tunnels! They have to get rid of them!"

Acts like this should never be normalized. What Israel through the help of the west is doing IS normalizing it.



If you look at both the definitions of ethnic cleansing and of genocide - they absolutely both fit in the instance of what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza.

Even if you believe the death toll from the Gaza Health Ministry which is around 42000, that is a far cry from genocide. The mass slaughter is not happening. surely, you can see the foolishness of calling this genocide.

 

[KiwiSaint]

Even if you believe the death toll from the Gaza Health Ministry which is around 42000, that is a far cry from genocide. The mass slaughter is not happening. surely, you can see the foolishness of calling this genocide.

What I don’t understand is how anyone can vilify the IDF for civilian casualties when it’s Hamas, Hezbollah, et. al. that embed themselves within said civilian population and civilian infrastructure.
Furthermore, a poll published by the Ramallah-based non-profit Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in March 2024, showed 71% of Palestinians supported the October 7 attack…you reap what you sow.

 

[DaveXA]

What I don’t understand is how anyone can vilify the IDF for civilian casualties when it’s Hamas, Hezbollah, et. al. that embed themselves within said civilian population and civilian infrastructure.

Well, I can certainly understand it. I don't believe Bibi to be a good faith actor in all of this. The hostages are secondary to his desire to hold on to power and his response vis a vis the military seizing Gaza and areas north bear that out. No question Hamas et al bear the brunt of the blame for the October 7th massacre and their refusal to return the hostages is a legitimate cause for a severe response, but the fact of the matter is the IDF has killed a lot people, unfortunately too many innocents caught in the crossfire. The ones embedded in the civilian population rightfully are the ones most responsible for those deaths, but Israel does bear significant responsibility as well.

Furthermore, a poll published by the Ramallah-based non-profit Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in March 2024, showed 71% of Palestinians supported the October 7 attack…you reap what you sow.

Oh no doubt. But I would also just say most there probably don't feel safe saying anything negative about Hamas for obvious reasons. That may be changing to some degree though.

 

[SystemShock]

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Out of curiosity, what do you expect Israel to do? Just continue to tolerate attacks and deaths and do nothing? Like many, you seem to forget what started all of this. Many have forgotten the images of dead Jewish men, women, and children, lying bloodied on the streets in Israel. Many ignore that the Oct. 7-8 2023 attack wasn't a one-and-done, and there's evidence more attacks were planned.

Hamas, Hezbollah, et al want to exterminate Jews and wipe out Israel off the map. Why wouldn't/shouldn't Israel beat them to the punch?