Israel (now broader Mid East discussion) (7 Viewers)

[Madmarsha]

Just want to make sure we’re on the same page.

Nobody is on the same page. We can't tell who the terrorists are. We can't identify genocide. Some have embraced anti-semitism. I mean, what's the answer?

 

[SystemShock]

Sure. It’s all subjective at some point.

In my eyes, the point I’m trying to make and I believe the quoted tweet was trying to make is that it’s obvious that the west uses one set of standards for themselves, and a completely different one for others.

And the East doesn't use a different standard?

Just as America celebrated the decision of the ICC to indict Putin, but announced they’d go after the same ICC that indicted Netanyahu for similar crimes.

It’s the hypocrisy that I’m highlighting.

Putin is an enemy, Netanyahu is an ally.
Do you treat your enemies the same as your allies?

No. But just as the professor of Holocaust studies pointed out in the video, this turned from a target Hamas campaign to a raze Gaza to the ground and occupy it, and Lebanon, and Syria…in a year.

Hamas uses human shields, and like it or not, Gaza is Hamas. Lebanon gives shelter to Hezbollah, Syria aids and abets Again, what do you expect Israel to do? Just tolerate attacks and massacres of their population?

There is such thing as gross overreach. And to use October 7th as a reason to commit atrocities on the people living in Gaza is obviously, clearly, a war crime.

Again, Gaza is Hamas. Hamas controls Gaza. What do you expect Israel to do? Not defend themselves?

Israel has committed them consistently in the last year. Do you think that isn’t reality?

In direct retaliation for the attacks on Israel. Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, they knew that Israel was not going to just sit there and take it, but they chose to attack Israel, then use human shields.

Why should Israel care for the people who want to wipe them off the face of the Earth?

I'm curious as to why you think that I've forgotten this.

You keep posting the point of view of 1 side only.

As terrible as that day was, the irony here is that many seem to care about civilians being harmed on one day, yet don’t when other civilians are harmed 365 days after.

There is no irony here. Israel was viciously attacked by people who want to eradicate them. Why would they not eradicate them first?

My position is not one of “sides”. It’s of pointing out the criminality of whichever group, whether it be Hamas, or IDF, or Hezbollah, or the US - which commits them.

Yet you just post views from one side only.

Sadly, I do believe that cognitive dissonance is clearly at play here - the western media narrative using Israeli propaganda to excuse Israel sniping toddlers in the head, to give one of hundreds of examples of war crimes.

There is no cognitive dissonance on my side. Israel was attacked; men, women, and children gunned down, raped, burned., by enemies of the Israelis, and enemies of the U.S. , the ones who chant "from the river to the sea", and "death to America".

This is not an occurrence in a vacuum either... there is a long history of attacks on Israel since the mid 20th century.

I think you like I care about and are sickened by seeing innocent people killed on October 7th. I'd assume you're also sickened about those killed on every day after in Gaza by Israel.

Just yesterday, images came out of the IDF having bombed a tent city of unhoused people behind a major hospital in Gaza. There are videos of a father and his little girl struggling as they die in the flames.

Surely images such as this hurt everyone to see.

They probably do. But, if Israel doesn't go on the offensive, you'll be seeing those images from Israel. And again, I ask you, what should Israel do? Just tolerate the attacks?

I have no problem with a country beating another to the punch if there’s evidence they wanted to commit war crimes like killing civilians.

Well, there you go.

To be clear, would you be fine if it were Hamas attacking Israel if it were found that Israel had premeditated attacks on Palestinians in Gaza?

Just want to make sure we’re on the same page.

We are clearly not on the same page. And that question is a straw man that ignores history, and that Hamas is a terrorist organization. You should learn what Hamas has been doing since the 1950's (before they were named Hamas), how Hamas got to rule Gaza, and how immediately after they took power launched attacks on Israel.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

This is why European countries are starting to deport.

 

[DaveXA]

This is why European countries are starting to deport.

Considering Muslims make up less than 7% of the population in Germany, they aren't becoming the majority anytime soon.

 

[baarbogast]

Considering Muslims make up less than 7% of the population in Germany, they aren't becoming the majority anytime soon.

Germany just told Turkey they were sending around 500 a month back and the end goal was over 13k.

 

[DaveXA]

Germany just told Turkey they were sending around 500 a month back and the end goal was over 13k.

Considering there's about 5-6 million Muslims in Germany, that's a tiny, tiny percentage. It's symbolic at best. Now if we start seeing tens of thousands deported per month, they'll have my attention.

 

[baarbogast]

Considering there's about 5-6 million Muslims in Germany, that's a tiny, tiny percentage. It's symbolic at best. Now if we start seeing tens of thousands deported per month, they'll have my attention.

That I can agree with, they also either aren’t going to accept more or drastically reduce the number allowed in.

 

[DaveXA]

That I can agree with, they also either aren’t going to accept more or drastically reduce the number allowed in.

Yeah, that would make sense.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[Merl]

If there is someone in a country that is not a citizen and advocates for the overthrow of the current form of government, yjen they should be deported to the country that entered from.

 

[SystemShock]

Considering Muslims make up less than 7% of the population in Germany, they aren't becoming the majority anytime soon.

That's true, but it does show (trying to put is a politely as I can) a certain attitude: escaping a situation, taking refuge in a different place, then wanting to recreate the previous situation in that different place.

If you don't appreciate the values of a country, why do you take refuge in that country?

If you want to live in a Muslim state, why leave the Muslim state?

 

[DaveXA]

That's true, but it does show (trying to put is a politely as I can) a certain attitude: escaping a situation, taking refuge in a different place, then wanting to recreate the previous situation in that different place.

If you don't appreciate the values of a country, why do you take refuge in that country?

If you want to live in a Muslim state, why leave the Muslim state?

Certainly. I do believe immigrants should integrate and to some degree assimilate. They don't have to abandon what they believe or give up their customs, but they should accept that the laws and government of the country they live in is not theirs to change.

 

[Madmarsha]

Do I have to take a stance here? I feel like I do. So, if I have to, I will look at this as a woman. Where is the one place in the Middle East I as a Western woman would have the same rights as a man? The answer to that is the side I will land on. I guess that also makes me anti-Muslim.

But, as a woman, it's impossible for me to live with the cognitive dissonance of NOT being anti-Muslim considering my rights as a woman -- or a homesexual -- would not be commensurate with a Muslim man's no matter how, "But, y'all, I'm on YOUR side", I was.